But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman’s hand.’
(Eze 33:6 NKJV)
Friends, there is going to be attempt on the souls of the young in Dothan, Alabama in early September. We must pray that these souls will be buffeted against the attacks and false religion that is being promoted by David Del Vecchio, Randy DeMain, Paul Keith Davis & Bobby Conner
The above mentioned people are gathering for another Lakeland type event in Dothan, Alabama. I am sure that it will be a media frenzy and a frenzy of rebellion against God. It will take place at Beverlye Middle School with promises of a ‘”Now” word’.
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
(Gal 1:6-9 NKJV)
Remember, if these people come preaching anything but Jesus Christ, then they are teaching a doctrine of devils, no matter what they do.
August 17th, 2008 2:03 pm
Satan has no intentions of giving up on his sharade game. If he can manipulate people into thinking they are worshiping God, he has won a great victory. On the other hand, he can offer great rewards to certain individuals and they will promote the hyprocrisy. I’m thankful I wont fall in the ditch with them…I could be a wondering soul, but I chose to believe the bible instead.
August 20th, 2008 5:48 pm
Where are the facts that David DelVechhio leads false religion, rebellion against God?
I have been in some of CCi’s services and do not see the truth behind these accusations.
If you are going to smear this mans name, come out with truth and your name.
August 20th, 2008 9:48 pm
As opposed to your ‘real name’. If you can actually point to this ‘new word’ doctrine, or this angelology, in the Bible, then by all means, I will retract.
August 21st, 2008 10:25 am
Polycarp,
Can you point to the “new word” doctrine, or this angelogy? I’ve never those words or thinking from CCi. I may be wrong but I cannot place any of these accusations that you are making against any of these men. Please help us understand where your context is coming from.
As far as preaching anything but Jesus Christ… Pastor David Del Vechhio preaches everything about Jesus, God, Holy Spirit.
This rebellion against God is a lie. CCi and friends push and strive to be closer to God. To build a relationship with God. Not a rebellion.
Where have you gotten these accusations from?
<Joshua Bane (my real name; whats yours?)
August 21st, 2008 11:09 am
To the one that posted the blog and the ones that responded to this blog, first, sign your full names to it you pansies! if you come with an accusation or if you stand in defense you are nothing but a coward if you don’t show your true identity!
second, I know David and the leaders @ CCI but most of all i would like to think i know their hearts, and that is to share the gospel of Christ and to see people added to the kingdom of God. However the gospel may be presented, God is intelligent enough to draw in who He wills even if any form of presentation is misguided or not,(in your opinion). He says His word will not return void, so I tend to believe Him.
My question to the person that posted this blog is why is it that a word that has recently (or not so recently)become synonymous with “cannibal”, is “christian”
Man, you are so hung up on words and doctrines, which neither one are worth the paper they are written on. my plea to you is to find out who God is and establish a relationship with Him because it’s going to be just you facing Him in the end.I can pretty much guarantee He’s not telling you to “slam” other believers as your “call” or “ministry”, as a matter-of-fact i recall that He requires us to pray for each other and to love each other, that’s how the world will know we are His. In the end, you can’t blame David or Randy or any of the other speakers at this function for your downfall. God created us to have a relationship with Him, not to uphold doctrines, of which 99% were created by men who probably had some bad pizza the night before. Even Paul said the only thing that he would want to know is Christ and Him crucified. Imagine what all your efforts that you put into defending what you believe and slamming your brothers were put into growing closer to the Father and learning walk in the unconditional love Christ walked in while He was here. You want to change people? You want to see people not follow down the wrong path? Live as Christ did.
p.s. what about that verse, “we wrestle NOT against flesh and blood….”
just a thought
August 21st, 2008 11:52 am
First, the since this is my blog, I find no need to ask for names or give names. My friends who I have communicated directly with know it, and it is listed throughout this blog. So who cares.
Second. Neither of you offer any substantial defense of these ‘charismatics’. You only attempt to shout down those, such as myself, who call attention to the falsehoods that they promulgate.
Third, neither of you have any serious understanding of the historical Church and the Doctrines that are held within. Since the paper on which these doctrines are written are is the very paper of the Bible, then your ‘worthless’ comment is directly against the Word of God, which the Apostle Paul held as the doctrine of the Church.
Gentlemen, both of you show forth the marks of this worldly religion and the contempt for true Christianity that it brings about. A true Christian is commanded to search diligently these ‘ministers’ to see if they are false and once they are proven false, then we must call attention to it. Your argument is not with me, but with the Word of God.
August 21st, 2008 11:58 am
WHO ARE YOU!?!?!?! and why do you think you have the authority to speak about CCI and you know NOTHING about them!? I don’t understand how you can be saying what you are saying without knowing YOUR facts. According to the Word… if you have a prblem you are to go to the leader and talk it out.. You don’t come against other brothers… if that is what you are calling yourself…without getting your facts and FACING them… not stabbing them in the back… you want to be scriptual.. then do things right. If you have never been to CCI… then You have NO PLACE to talk about it… period!
August 21st, 2008 12:08 pm
Dear Concerned,
CCI is not a part of the Body of Christ. They are easily measured against the Bible and found wanting. This is the duty of every Christian. Every Saint. Everyone who is called a believer.
August 21st, 2008 12:35 pm
Polycarp, you sad little person.
You have no idea what either of these gentlemen know or don’t know about historical church or it’s history. This is an accusation that you have no backing for.
What is it exactly that you are asking a defense for since I am sure that you haven’t personally been to a service or have an idea what they are preaching? This seems to make your comments ‘worthless’.
Does not His word speak of having all knowledge and having not love making you (and your cause) useless? Does not Matt 7 warn against the way you judge others – as well as being aware of the false prophets you speak of? Since these ‘charismatics’ are obviously your enemy should you not pray for them as Luke instructs? 2 Peter tells us that God knows how to take care of and even rescue the righteous and deal with the unrighteous. The Word tell us to recognize and test the spirits but with that understanding it also warns against judgement and having not love.
Weather I agree or not with the doctrine they teach… the gile and venom with which you bring your observations and opinion is against the very Word of God you claim to preach.
False prohets and teachers do indeed have their judgement coming but so do you.
August 21st, 2008 12:36 pm
Like I said… WHO ARE YOU to say these things… when YOU don’t know squat about CCI and you say they are not part of the Body of Christ… Bottom Line..
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE TRUTH.. If you were listening to the Lord..you would not be saying these against the body of Christ … who are you to say WHO the Body of Christ is?? you are putting ourself in dangerous waters and they will over take you… You need to seek Truth and keep mans opinions to ones self!
My suggestion is to go to CCI and sit with a open mind and heart and hear what the Lord is saying through Pastor David. TRUTH will prevail!!
August 21st, 2008 1:23 pm
Will you look at that…bitterness from those that would seek to instruct me on ‘Christian’ love.
It seems that this little article as struck a nerve or two.
August 21st, 2008 1:32 pm
I personally have been to CCi. A lot more times than once. I sat with an open mind for a long time. It’s that open mind that can get you into trouble. A man can do a lot with another man’s “open” mind. The leadership seeks to gain control over you and then if you go against them or what they think, they tell you that you are going against God and rebelling. They also smear your name to everyone around them. It is all a twisted up form of control. A pastor should not be able to tell a member of a church what to say (on the internet or otherwise), what to wear, who to hang out with, the list goes on and on. I don’t need to be policed by a pastor and I don’t want to be connected to one who feels the need to do so. What it I can tell you this, and I AM speaking from experience. There is a good reason why people are bailing out of that place. Let’s face it!
August 21st, 2008 1:36 pm
It’s not that you struck a nerve or two it’s the FACT that you don’t know the FACTS. Until you can honestly go to a service with an open mind and hear what the Lord is saying then say nothing. Pastor David only preaches what the Holy Spirit tells him and nothing else, and if you will go for yourself and see for yourself you will not say the things that you have said. The last thing one needs to do is come against a man of God. God will have His vengence and you don’t want that for yourself. So please don’t say anything else until you know the FACTS for YOURSELF and not hear say from others. The last thing you want to do is put yourself in the line of fire with GOD. So heed this warning as you have said previously about Dothan, AL.
August 21st, 2008 1:39 pm
ahhh yes – more stabs and yet no answers.. funny how that works.
enough said.
August 21st, 2008 1:44 pm
What answers are you in search of, Myself? Sounds like you already have one for everything.
August 21st, 2008 1:54 pm
that comment was for polycarp’s ‘bitterness’ comment.
just putting my hat in the ring like everyone else. polycarp keeps asking for a ‘defense’ – i am offering only what I know and yet the venom continues. He offers much critism – with no answers as I have offered mine… and I never I said I agreed or disagreed with those opinions and it doesn’t matter – there is a better way to communicate
August 21st, 2008 2:21 pm
I say to you brother or sister that has been to CCI…. I don’t have anger against you because you are misdirected by your anger and I truely SEE (WHO) is behind all this mess.. and don’t say you are not angry because your words say differently. I want to know why you can’t come out into the light and speak to a brother and sister that you SAY have done these things… and right things like the WORD says to do… I ask God for MERCY on you all that are boiling with anger and resentment against CCI… and are not coming forth to try
and correct things as you see them. When there is anger against brothers as is here… then you are saying your anger is greater than the Lord because he can’t heal and restore… so, go ahead and hang on to your anger…it will get very heavy in the near future and bring you down. always know… obiedence is better than scarafice!
August 21st, 2008 2:30 pm
Polycarp,
In defense to myself and Jason to your previous comment saying we don’t know anything. How can you say that when you don’t know who we are or what we stand for? If you have everything figured out and know the correct ways…please shed some light on those teachings. Help us understand what you understand. If we are in the wrong, show us the way we should go.
Regardless, it is all about relationship with Jesus, not religion-doctrine-theology-denominations-or our own understandings.
Can I ask that you be nice please. There is a difference between attacking someone and standing up for what you believe.
August 21st, 2008 2:33 pm
Thank you Polycarp! Give them some rope!
August 21st, 2008 2:33 pm
I’m going to add a rule.
EVERYONE BE NICE.
Whether we think that whoever is in the wrong or if you are right…doesn’t give the right to slam people, churches, or whoever.
Tell me one church that has it 100% perfect? Every church has their strengths and their weaknesses.
August 21st, 2008 2:54 pm
Go here for more discussion
August 21st, 2008 2:55 pm
Laura, you have no defense for the false doctrines and the anti-gospel message coming from the CCI. What you perceive as venom is Truth with a biblical mandate.
August 21st, 2008 3:03 pm
Joshua, when you said,
“Regardless, it is all about relationship with Jesus, not religion-doctrine-theology-denominations-or our own understandings.”
You ignore the Apostle Paul as well as history of the Church in which Doctrine played such a huge part for the entire breadth of history.
Joshua, there is a true and perfect Church. It is based on the Doctrine of Jesus Christ and firmly rooted in His word. It is His body and His Bride. No, the people might not be perfect, but the Church is.
August 21st, 2008 3:24 pm
What I mean by it is not about the religious stuff is that religion can get in the way of the relationship with God. There is a difference between being a Christian and being in Christianity. Yes we are called to be ready to give a defense for the faith that we have. It is important to know and stand for what is true.
Christianity has played and still plays a huge role in history.
I agree about “No, the people might not be perfect, but the Church is.” But what makes up the Church? Please define “It is His body and His Bride.” Break this down some more please.
August 21st, 2008 3:39 pm
yeah, nice anonymity. your honesty proves more of your character and ‘truth’.
LOVE is also a BIBLICAL COMMAND AND MANDATE… weather or not you agree with someone…..
SIGNED – LAURA
August 21st, 2008 3:47 pm
ding sing ding
everyone to seperate corners…
this is funny stuff guys!
From someone whose been in the “inner circle” then turned on and forgotten about – there’s more hypocrasy, back-stabbing, gossip and manipulation in that church than in the Paris Hilton/Nicole Richy saga. wow…
“christians” really are the only human species that eat their own young!
That being said…this is a strange forum to vent your frustrations.
I really believe that the Truth is somewhere right down the middle…scandelous isn’t it?!?
His resurrected church will be the perfect one we just may be surprised by whose NOT in it.
OK – on the count of 3 come out swingin…
1…
2….
3 – GGGOOOOOO!
August 21st, 2008 3:49 pm
Laura, no one has revealed you. I have not posted your last name or the location or you ip address or even your email address.
Joshua, Too many times people forsake doctrine and the ‘religious’ stuff for experience and emotionalism which gives birth to false doctrines.
August 21st, 2008 3:50 pm
JI, One has to learn what exactly a ‘Christian’ is and it is not CCI or any of the other ministries. Neither are they the Church.
August 21st, 2008 3:55 pm
So are you referring to me in particular or just in general?
August 21st, 2008 4:08 pm
It’s not about finding out what a true Christian is. That is not what we are here for, nor is that legit. we are here to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, to be a follower. There will never be 100% of every on the same page under one roof, under one staff, under one man. One man will never be the perfect example, nor have the perfect sermon to describe exactly how to show what each word is saying unless it comes from the Holy Spirit. If these sermons of false teachings are not of him, why do people come from all over with understanding of the word he brings? Are there just that many false prophets floating around?
will you please point out to me what i am believing that is so wrong and false? if you are trying to save us, warn us, tell us what i have learned from Pastor that is wrong.
August 21st, 2008 4:11 pm
I didn’t know what else to call you, so JI has to do.
August 21st, 2008 4:13 pm
I was referring to your comments not how you address me…you think I need to learn or you just commenting…
August 21st, 2008 4:16 pm
The Great Commission
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
You shall love the Lord your God with al1 your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” The scribe said to him, “Well said, teacher. You are right in saying, ‘He is One and there is no other than he.’ And ‘to love him with your heart, with all your understanding, with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself’ is worth more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.” (Mark 12:28-34)
If we could live by these principles then everything would fall into place.
August 21st, 2008 4:16 pm
So, Christen, how about Scriptural proof for your statements?
Please continue to read the other posts for everything that is wrong with these ‘pastors’.
Paul speaks about the unity of the faith, you know. That means that yes, we will be on the same page when it comes to the Faith. Christ did not come to establish individual relationships, Christen, but the Church.
August 21st, 2008 4:28 pm
It is so entertaining to see all of the bible scholars out this afternoon. Its so easy to throw scripture around when it sounds like it fits your agenda.
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ You living that, are ya? Or do we only “love” the ones who attend our church, agree with what we are doing and stand with us HERE in this place. Walk away from me and you no longer “deserve” nor will you receive my “love”.
You are so right “IF” and only “IF” we could live by these principles then everything would fall into place, but so far, we can’t and things are falling apart.
August 21st, 2008 4:54 pm
Well well. This is all very entertaining. You silly Christians. Glad I resigned from all of your bickering and idiocy and got saved. My thanks to all the contributors of this blog and commenters for a laugh this afternoon. May the hot turd of happiness squish up between your toes. Notice the use of my real name, and my myspace page. As a guess, most of the people here know how to get in touch with me anyway.
August 21st, 2008 4:57 pm
So then what is the point of an individual relationship? yes there will be a perfect church. but we have to be perfect in order for the church to be perfect u think? maybe i should drop this whole church thing and come sit under you for a little while, maybe i’ll learn some “truth”…man i must have missed out.
and why do i need to give you a scriptural reference when you won’t even give me any resources of what he SAID or is saying that is so wrong…are they just wrong in general? dont even say their name wrong?
thank you for the pushing of people to say something…whether in defense or in guilt. this has been rather interesting to watch progress. whether i agree with you or not, i do respect the standing for what you “believe”, or just starting the uprising, or just making P.David SO happy to be on the same line as some of the greatest men.
August 21st, 2008 5:09 pm
A good friend of mine once said ” most of the people who are going around saying “do not be deceived, do not be deceived”" are the ones who are deceived.
August 21st, 2008 5:19 pm
Why are you not posting everyone’s comments?
Have your resorted to a cat fight rather than a fair fight….
August 21st, 2008 5:34 pm
Joshua, then it seems your friend would have contested with Christ and Paul.
Joining In, I am posting everyone’s comments. If you post one time, you are usually allowed to post again without the need for moderation. Sometimes it goes to spam. Do you have proof otherwise?
August 21st, 2008 5:35 pm
wow, i leave for a few hours and look what happens. Who chummed the water?
Mr. Carp, i really do appreciate your boldness and your stand for your convictions, heck, a lot of people just shut their mouths and close their eyes and pray this just passes like a 2:00a.m. tuna and peanut butter sandwich. You are a very intelligent, well disciplined, and definitely a well versed person, almost apologetic-like. I do like the apologetics.
Ok, enough about you, your name really doesn’t matter, not that you’re not important, but unless you and I plan on being friends, that subject is moot.
You know as far as defending “charismatics”,or their doctrine, frankly speaking, labels of any kind are not impressive to me and if anyone or any group needs that to be significant, then what Christ did on the cross was in vain. That selfless act should be everyones, one and only “source of significance”, not to mention the only “side” I choose is Christs’ whether you or the people at CCI are on it.
You know, probably as well as I do, that there will come a time when the written word will not be necessary. I’m not slamming the teachings of Christ nor any of the apostles, I’m saying that most of the “biblical” doctrines out there are built on a foundation of horse…crap. They may be laced with some form of truth but none-the-less….crap. It’s not that I’m anti-doctrine It’s that I’m pro-relationship, God’s not going to ask us what doctrine we upheld, He’s going to ask, not necessarily in these words, what have you done with my Son, did you have a relationship with Him, did people see my Son when they looked at you, or were you too loyal or too concerned about developing what you believe that you missed His constant calling to spend intimate time with Him? The saying is true, not only in this world, but also in His kingdom, “It’s not what you know, it’s who you know” I’m all for being an advocate of the doctrines of Christ, especially the walking in LOVE one. Call a spade a spade if that’s what you feel you need to do, but my God man, how many Hindus do you think you will win by stepping off a boat on the shore of the Ganges and shouting at the top of your lungs “the Dali-lama and Sheba sleep with Satan and all of you are going to hell”. Do you understand this warped analogy? Do you want to be a minister in the body, one who builds up and edifies, or do you just want your friends, you know the ones that know your name, to see how big of a hornets nest you can stir? There are ways to approach or call-out someone without causing as much grief.
So a true Christians’ real calling is to search out and expose false teachers? If that were the case the Church wouldn’t have made it past the first century. Yes, that’s a small “job” in the light of the truth though, but a true Christians’ highest calling is to reflect Gods’ character, an innumerable faceted one. David and the brothers and sisters at CCI maybe show one facet and you with your friends may have cornered the market on another facet, this doesn’t mean that either one of you have the only answer, and if neither one of you have the counter balance of the love of Christ, then you’re both wrong.
I have no argument with the word of God, nor do I have one with you or with David.
MY GOD people! you wonder why Christianity is suffering?
Mr. Carp you are right the Church is perfect, I agree; but it’s not us four and no more.
The song is “Jesus Loves Me”, not “Jesus Loves Me Because I Do This or I Do That”
One more thought. What if I were a Marxist and I knew “Das Kapital” for memory, and I followed it to a tee. I go to Russia to visit Ol’ Karl, during the time he was alive, mind you, I make my way through Red Square and into Karl’s chamber, I go up to him and say “hi I’m Jason, I’m your biggest fan not to mention the president of your fan club on top of being the most loyal Marxist in the U.S.” I guarantee you my last words would be “no, don’t shoot!” Did I know Karl or did I just know his teachings?
Jason
August 21st, 2008 5:36 pm
Christen, I think you missed the other post that I had stating some of the errors. I hope that you get a chance to read it.
I have no problem with people defending their view points and I do like to push the conversation a bit.
August 21st, 2008 5:43 pm
Chummed? Carp…A pun perhaps?
Jason, I appreciate the kind words. I do get a bit testy at times, but if the conversation is progressing civilly, I do my best to remain the same.
I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement about the end of the Word and the Doctrine. Paul says no such thing. Instead, he commands and commends to us the Doctrine of Jesus Christ, to hold, to stand upon. Once those are gone, then so is the Church – so is Christianity. It about the Incarnation, but one has to have the correct Doctrine of the Incarnation.
Yes, Jesus loves us, but we have to obey Him and those things that He set in Order, such as Apostles. The lack of strong Doctrine, of true Doctrine, is what has led to this present situation with these false prophets.
August 21st, 2008 5:46 pm
KUDOS Dan!!!
You’re a literary scholar!
Go Dan
Go Dan
Go Dan
Well said!
August 21st, 2008 5:47 pm
Go here
August 21st, 2008 5:49 pm
Well, after reading Dan’s comments…I was wondering just how this post which is 7 days old has suddenly raised such a storm. Well, thanks the link, whoever did it.
August 21st, 2008 5:53 pm
My stance is that I am a Christian. I am part of The Body of Christ. I love God. I could do things better. But I want to live my life out for God. I want to see other people become part of The Body of God. I want to see revival in the hearts of people. I want to live my life in worship to God. Worship as a lifestyle. I want a close intimate relationship with God. I am His child.
August 21st, 2008 5:55 pm
Cat fight! Meow!
claws and fangs…
carp – deleted the one earlier…there’s the proof
August 21st, 2008 6:16 pm
No, you purposely violated my vulgarity rule. So, I have since added you to the moderated list. It seems that the only reason you are ‘here’ is to cause trouble.
August 21st, 2008 6:18 pm
Joshua, we are told to measure people by the words of the Apostles. If we do this, then we know it takes more then mere words and stances. I am not doubting your salvation, but if it is not in line with doctrine, then it might be time to assure yourself of it.
Tell me, just who is NOT a part of the Body of Christ? Atheists, Democrats, and Muslims?
August 21st, 2008 6:25 pm
We are all a part of the body of Christ! When we accepted him, and ate of his body, his body became us! Matthew 26:26 As they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks for it, and broke it. He gave to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” why else would he have us partake of him? so anyone who has done so, does that make them the Body?
Good night!
i still dont see any specifics, word for word, on my previous statements. i have read over this a few times already…
see you in the morning
and you know what else?
Blessings to all!
August 21st, 2008 6:30 pm
Christen,
Simply partaking of the Eucharist does not make one a member of the Body of Christ. Heretics through the centuries have taken the Body and Blood but remain outside the Body.
So know, we are not all apart of the Body of Christ. We read of several instances in the Scriptures where there were those that came to Church, if you will, and even performed miracles in the name of Christ, but in the end, suffered the same fate as the sinners and God-haters.
August 21st, 2008 8:58 pm
hey Mr. Carp, no pun intended with the “chummed” thing. I agree as far as having a strong doctrine, it’s almost like there are no more absolutes. I see where the Church has let down her guard and allowed wolves to creep in. No doubt, there is truth in that statement.
You’re very passionate about your stance, not many people would hold out this long. I tell you one thing, you sure have made this evenings’ meal all around the wiregrass quite an interesting one
Brother, one more question before I go for real this time, just a question not a challenge,well maybe half and half. When the Pharisees came to Jesus and condemned Him and His disciples about them not fasting on the “official” fasting day and He told them, don’t quote me verbatim, why should the bride fast while she is with the bridegroom? Something to that effect. My point is “relationship over doctrine”. There is too much “doctrine” floating around and not enough people showing/living the relationship. That’s what this generation is crying out for. We are overwhelmed with information and “how to” books I’m surprised there’s not a “Christianity for Dummies” book. Whoever writes that one is going to make a lot of money.
There I go again, rambling. Brother, I’ll work on my doctrine following and you work on speaking the truth in love, it’s like the book of Hezekiah says “you attract more flies with honey than you do with vinegar”. I’m not saying that my friends, whom you accuse, are flies.
The problem with this medium of communication, with this kind of subject matter, every eye can see it, the immature, the brand new believers, the accused families, and people that can not or even attempt to grasp the scope of this accusation. Brother use wisdom next time you do this, go to the ones you can, if audience with them is even feasible, and e-mail or call the ones you can’t. If neither is possible and all your bridges are burned, then pray. Like I said earlier, the Holy Spirit has been at this a lot longer than you or I. He knows who to call. If there is a desperation in your heart for this camp meeting and those who attend, then pray that God’s will be done and each individual be ministered to as God sees need.
Well so much for a short sign-off. Listen Mr. Carp feel free to e-mail me if you want to talk further, in the meantime I’ll go to the links and read more of where you’re coming from.
Thanks for your responses
Jason
August 21st, 2008 9:12 pm
Jason,
No need to run. BTW, there are three books that you might wish to NOT read. Here, here and here.
I believe that if you were to actually find the passage (Mark 2.18-19) you will see that it was not about personal relationships, but who the Bridegroom is and the response to the Bridegroom. This is not the proper place for an exegesis, but maybe a bit later. Also, there is no ‘book of Hezekiah‘. Not sure if you were punning there or not.
I hope that you continue to read a bit more and stay tuned as I do my best to keep the topics a bit broad.
There is no need to go to DeMain, Davis and the others because they are not brothers. The best that I can do is to warn as many people as possible of their false-ianity.
August 21st, 2008 10:15 pm
The fact that these fellas teach that you can “learn” to work in the supernatural is about all I need to hear. Did any of you endorse Todd Bentley?…he taught “supernatural training classes” and it seems these guys are cut from the same fold. I haven’t spent a ton of time looking into these guys but just a few minutes reading some of their book reviews was plenty for me.
Polycarp on the other hand has taken a lot of time to research and post the types of things these guys teach, and the company they keep…which is much more telling than you all would like to admit. Do you all think God is pleased with “signs and wonders” meetings? How about “holy” laughter, “spiritual drunkenness”?…are these things that please the Lord? Do you all think that God wants us all to be rich?
I read all posts prior to this one and the two things that stick out the most to me are 1) The guy that basically said the need for the Bible is diminishing and will eventually be replaced by relationship with Jesus…seriously, IF THERE’S NO STANDARD THEN BIBLICAL TRUTH BECOMES RELATIVE. People would then be arguing about what “Jesus” told them…and there would be no standard to refer to for correction. I do hope you reconsider that thought, it is the spirit of anti-christ that says God’s Word isn’t relevant. 2) I find it very telling that the only person who received a compliment was the one who came in to call this conversation idiotic and all of you “silly christians”…and then goes on to talk about “turds” between your toes. Awesome, quite the literary giant in my view too. Glad you’re saved Dan, your humility is on display as an example for us all. Otherwise it’s more of the same as Bentley’s crowd… everyone who doesn’t “open their mind” to this teaching is judgmental…Why would one need to open their mind if the teaching is just? If someone is teaching the Word then we can just open our Bibles and read the text along with them.
Polycarp, a few of these guys don’t even think we need the Bible/Word of God, (99% of it was written by guys who ate bad pizza the previous night)–THAT’S RIDICULOUS JASON AND THAT’S WHAT YOUR OPEN-MINDEDNESS HAS GOTTEN YOU. They don’t even trust the Word, I wonder how long their spiritual lives have been led by their feelings since God’s Word isn’t true and shouldn’t be trusted. It’s also interesting how those who share your view on false teachers aren’t walking in love…yet I don’t recall you resorting to the name-calling. I don’t think you’re going to get anywhere with most of these “love-walkers”. They come to fight for and defend a man rather than God’s Word, just as “amused” mentioned in comment #12…it’s a bit cultish.
August 21st, 2008 10:25 pm
LOL!!! you’ve got to be kidding me, those books, Someone beat me to it! I know, no Hezekiah any of those 73 books of the bible
August 21st, 2008 10:29 pm
Clark, as always, well said. Some of these people epitomize ‘Churchless Christianity’ and the lack of moral and doctrinal foundation. They typify the results – lack of doctrinal awareness, lack of doctrinal concern, lack of historical Christianity. They take the things of God lightly, but stuanchly defend their prophets. It is a shame that they take these people at face value instead of doing what the bible says.
August 21st, 2008 11:42 pm
If God’s Word isn’t the truth then they see no point in searching it out. “Angels” and their “men of God” can do all the revealing for them…no Bible necessary. They just need to “open their minds” and close their Bible.
For those who don’t believe that God’s Word IS God’s Word the discussion is almost pointless, almost.
August 22nd, 2008 1:58 am
couldn’t sleep so I came out here to check out the “progress”; and I know I’ll regret this in the morning…
Mr. Clark I appreciate your “critique” of my ramblings. It seems that you are also a passionate one. I realize I am no match to yours and Mr. Carps “knowledge” of the Word; but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night…I had to do it, it just fit. Seriously though, not once did I say that the men that wrote the Bible wrote it after they ate something bad. I was referring to the Imbeciles who in latter centuries and after, that decided to write Church doctrine by their own interpretation and invoke it on the laity, such as Constantine and the likes thereof.
I would be a fool to say that the prophets of old and the new testament writers were wrong. Without the doctrine of Christ we have no absolutes, but without Christ we have no doctrine, and if we have no relationship with Christ, the doctrine we do have and the knowledge we think we have isn’t worth the paper it’s written on, it’s worth nothing.
Those men are not my prophets nor do they speak into my life, and I have NO “man of God” that speaks for God for me.
I do believe that’s the reason the veil was torn in two, so the Spirit of God could come out and dwell in the temples that were created for Him to dwell in to begin with.
I agree with you Mr. Clark on the “signs and wonders” and the “holy” laughter stuff, mind you God is not out of the miracle business, but if that is your main objective, then you’ve got a problem. You’re a part of a generation that seeks for a sign, “show me the money” attitude. I’m not talking about you Mr. Clark, I don’t buy in to the “angel” thing either. Show me where the apostles and the early church had their special angels hangin’ out with them, or where they even gave them credence, except for the times they were ministering to the saints, sent by God on certain occasions, such as Paul and Silas, the empty tomb, and maybe a couple of other times. Church that’s what the Holy Spirit is for.
Mr. Clark, I don’t know Randy or the crew that is coming, and I don’t necessarily agree with David 100%, nor do I agree 100% with my dad, nor do I agree 100% with the doctrinal beliefs of where I attend church, that doesn’t mean I love these people any less nor do I see them as spawns of Satan. Heck even the pharisees that Christ called a brood of vipers had a chance to yield to the Spirit of God, even to their last breath.
Mr. Clark, I have no grief with your disagreement with these men, heck even with me for that matter. I even understand the seriousness of the indictments that are put forth in this blog. If the statements that Mr. Carp says about Randy and the other fellows that are going to speak at this camp meeting are true, then let God hold them accountable for every word that comes out of their mouth, unless you and Mr. Carp and friends want to cast the first stones. If these men are coming preaching another gospel, may God have mercy on their souls. Your warning has been heard and duly noted; but woe to you, when in the end you are facing God and you look more like a “doctrine” than you do His Son.
Jason
August 22nd, 2008 7:24 am
If I had realized that requesting prayer would cause this, I would have to agree with the Holy Spirit in me that I still would have done it.
I was in a church here in this town that was much like CCI (I have been to CCI also before) that first of all started teaching that the bible was no longer the only word of God, that teaching another teacher was paramount. I was heavily involved in that church and about a year before it all started to shift, God started dealing with me about leaving. I sat and listened and watched my last Sunday as everyone looked like they zoombies instead of live people. They listened as one spoke Bill Johnson’s name more than Jesus, who was mentioned once (keep in mind, I do not blame Bill Johnson for that, the leaders should have known better); telling them that they needed an original thought of their own that was found outside the bible. That same person on another day said that grace was earned and that you had to earn it if you want God’s favor on your life. I wanted to cry, but was so glad to be leaving. I tried going to pastor, my request was intercepted and I was politely dismissed and released.
This is deeper than just someone wanting to warn, this is causing those who, otherwise would have died for the name of Jesus and the cross that he bore, might without warning become mindless and accept anything that comes along. God had mercy to rescue me from it. A simple post cannot cause an uproar unless there is something worth checking out and a truth in it to question.
I spent time with God last night and felt He said it was time to stay in His Word and forget these other things. Deception started in the garden when Eve listened to the serpent tell her that eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil will make you as like God. The deception has now taken a turn for greater deception, people are actually teaching that we are little gods, able to get Now words not aligning with God’s Word. I am sorry some of you are upset with the stand, but you will have to get over it. I come from a history of sexual abuse in the church that I grew up in. They felt it best to keep it covered because love covers, the only problem is, all the victims were not covered, just those abusing. I know you will wonder what this has to do with anything, all secrets are not meant to be kept, especially if another one becomes a victim. I do not believe you share with the world all details, but at least when it is exposed, know there is a reason and that is to save someone else from enduring what you endured. This move is scary to say the least, especially when your being taught that signs and wonders are more significant than the Words of the Savior who died and rose again. By the way, I have yet to meet any of these men we write about who have accomplished what Jesus did for me. When they do, I might just give them another listen, until then, I will be avoiding those camp meeting services based on what I know and stay focused on Jesus and Him crucified.
Polycarp, sorry it took so long for me to chime in, was checking out other blogs, did not realize such a stink came out of a prayer request.
August 22nd, 2008 8:13 am
I may need to clarify something. The issue involving bringing up the abuse in the church I grew up in was to bring to light that if you complain about a secret or a wrong teaching being brought to light, you may be helping to expose to a young Christian a lie that could cause them to miss God completely, causing then to not accept God’s full grace being set free from sin. Keeping the secret of the abuse in the church covered the behinds of the abusers, not the victims. Not exposing this teaching will only cover the behinds of the teachers who are lying, and not looking out for those in Christ who are just looking for their Savior and how they can best serve Him. I know a lot of people who gave up trying because they could not get that word of prophesy to share, no one was being healed when they laid hands after being taught if they were truly following Christ, they would; so they felt they were wasting their time and God’s and only sat like zombies playing their good christian role by being in church every Sunday; sounds like pharasee teaching to me with a twist.
Instead of getting mad about the post, try really looking at what is being taught and what you believe. The truth is this right believing will lead to right living. Believing a lie will lead to lying living. Just make sure for the sake of those who come after you your believing the truth.
August 22nd, 2008 8:14 am
Tammy, I am glad that you chimed in when you did. You provide a good witness of what happens when a congregation leaves the Word of God for a ‘now’ word.
August 22nd, 2008 8:18 am
Jason, the Son is the Doctrine. We are not casting stones at a person, nor would we, but we are doing exactly what we are commanded to do in the very Word of God and that is to search out these people, to try the spirits, and if they are found in rebellion to God, to stand as a watchman on the wall sounding the trumpet.
August 22nd, 2008 10:00 am
Jason my man, please drop the “Mr.” stuff…I’m too young for that!
It’s not a critique my friend this is a discussion. Maybe a lot of what I said didn’t apply to you. (There were over 50 posts by the time I replied so I hit a lot of topics.) The doctrine aspect does however apply to you because although you somewhat clarified your point it still seems obvious that you aren’t sure what parts of the Bible you can trust.
The rest of your comments consist of you basically doubting one’s relationship with Jesus if one recognizes and calls out false teaching. Stoning? Spawns of Satan? Lacking relationship with Jesus? Sounds like you’re making a lot of assumptions about people.
Jason you mentioned: “If the statements that Mr. Carp says about Randy and the other fellows that are going to speak at this camp meeting are true, then let God hold them accountable for every word that comes out of their mouth…” My response to that is: What about the sheep? Shall we watch them go to slaughter? Yes God will deal with false teachers, but he will also deal with their followers. So if the things that Polycarp and others are saying IS true, then souls are at stake. You have to get that! Do you not see that it IS love that drives me?
August 22nd, 2008 10:18 am
Something that is standing out of this blog seems to be that some have been hurt or are hurting. There is a lot of blame games going on.
Thanks to the ones that stand for what they believe. Whether wrong or right. Thats for God to truely judge.
Polycarp, I have measured my salvation to what the Word of God says. I know that I know that I know that I am truely saved.
As far as the ones who don’t belong in The Body of Christ… I was asking you the same question, trying to understand where you are coming from. Please expound on that subject for a minute.
As far as the mere words and stance comment goes. I agree. Actions speak louder than words. Part of the reason why I said I could do things better (as we all could do). No of us have arrived. Even Paul said all that he is and has done is like a filthy rag.
I am called to be a disciple of Jesus and to go make other disciples. I need to be a better disciple of God. I need to study the Word more and learn about Jesus more so I know what Jesus stands for.
August 22nd, 2008 10:25 am
Something to chew on…
I’m just wondering. This is a learning experience for me.
Polycarp,
How long have you been a watchman? Looking out for the falsehoods.
How effective has it been? Do you use other methods of communication?
What are fruits of your labor?
Have you made a difference in someones life by warning others?
Whats are the next steps after the warnings? Once people realize they need to stay away from the falsehoods; where do they go after that? How do they get better?
August 22nd, 2008 10:35 am
Joshua, we stand for those that are hurt and try to prevent more from being hurt by the likes of Todd Bentley or CCI. Too many times, those that are hurt by ‘Christians’ are often too traumatized to accept the real Christ when it is presented to them. So, we try to warn them beforehand.
Often the statement ‘God will truly judge’ is used, no offense to you, as a cop out. God will indeed judge, but the Church must always be on guard against rebellion and abuse of Godly things. It is the Church that judges whether or not something that is going on or being preached is of God. It measures everything by the Word of God that it holds, that it stands firm on.
The Body of Christ is the Church. It is not a mere collection of individuals who are baptized or who partake of the Eucharist. The Body of Christ is the Church of which people belong to corporately. We are going to be saved individually, but through the Church, His Church. In His Church is the True Doctrine, the Tradition that has been handed down from Paul to Timothy to us. It is not Man’s thoughts, doctrines, and Tradition, but the very Word of God that was once and for all delivered to the Apostles. It is not some ‘new’ word for the ‘now’. That is an ancient heresy.
The Body of Christ, the Church, has Jesus Christ as the Head. That alone implies a corporation, not individuality. Yes, we are all accountable as individuals for our salvation, but we are not ’saved’ outside of the collected Church. We have to remember, that Christ sought to established the Kingdom of God – is kingdom an individualistic word?. He built Himself a Church – again, individualistic? Is Church of Kingdom a personal relationship?
Yes, each of us have a relationship with Christ, but it will not exist without the Church, the mother of us all.
August 22nd, 2008 10:44 am
Good morning Mr. Carp, I woke up thinking about my last statement, and somehow it didn’t make sense to me. that’s what I get when my mind says sleep and my body is stubborn, I humbly say you are right, Christ and His teachings are inseparable. The only thing He was doing was putting in to words who He was and how He lived.
I’ll follow suite with Tammy. I grew up in a church full of dogmatic, legalistic at times, law following, watchmen, and I’ve seen a lot of souls and spirits crushed because of their exuberance to “do the will of the Lord”. The one thing they lacked was the element of Love. No, I don’t trash my youth. In fact, since my youth I have yet heard any doctrine preached that has been “sounder”, if that’s a word.
One of the founding elders of that church told me before he died latter that year, with tears in his eyes, “don’t forget to love”. It floored me! I never heard that come out of his mouth. He wasn’t the same harsh, no-nonsense man I remembered as a kid, and if I was able I would have put my life on hold and followed him till his last breath.
You see, yes I am an advocate for love, but on the other hand I’m all for the castration of any false teacher or false prophet or one who brings a strange doctrine. If you feel your particular mission is to warn people of Randy and these speakers because you feel they are false, then do it without repentance, but don’t forget love. Remember, in your doing this, whether you follow Randy around the country or you do this from your desk at home you leave a wake of destruction, and the destruction is the shattered innocent souls who only see another Christian dining on another Christian, whether or not you deem them to be, and the clean-up job is left to the other believers scrambling to get them back and trying to let them see what the love of Christ really is. Those souls are making choices NOT to yield to Christ initiated by ministries like yours. I know your intentions are that but that usually is the outcome.
Brother, like I said I’m all for calling people out if their words and actions don’t line up with the word of God; but there are ways of handling it and this isn’t it. You NEED to have audience with him. I know you said you don’t because you don’t see him as a believer, that’s a cop-out. He’s thrown his name in the hat as a son of God, so go to him, personally and call him on it. That is the teaching of Christ not my “great” idea.
Do me a favor, during your campaign for dothan, leave my friends names out of it, especially Dan, Laura, and David.
Don’t forget Love.
Jason
August 22nd, 2008 10:52 am
Joshua based on these two responses it seems YOU have benefited from this work:
Joshua from comment #18: “Regardless, it is all about relationship with Jesus, not religion-doctrine-theology-denominations-or our own understandings.”
(notice the change)
Joshua from comment #65: “I am called to be a disciple of Jesus and to go make other disciples. I need to be a better disciple of God. I need to study the Word more and learn about Jesus more so I know what Jesus stands for.”
Additionally you should check out some of Tammy’s thoughts on some of the other posts.
August 22nd, 2008 11:04 am
All this talk about sappy love is beside the point. Love doesn’t have to be sappy to be love. Love doesn’t have to be weak or timid. From your comments it sounded like you learned this from the elder at your church…but then you turn around and still insist that we aren’t speaking out of love.
THIS WAS ONE POST ON THE INTERNET–NOT A CAMPAIGN. A WEEK AFTER THIS IS POSTED YOU GUYS SHOW UP IN MASSES. WHO’S CAMPAIGNING HERE?
There is nothing destructive about a call to holiness and adherence. It seems you refuse to grasp this concept.
August 22nd, 2008 11:04 am
Joshua (comment #66), I have been doing my best, sometimes not my best, to follow Christ for 8 years now. I grew up in a ‘church’, but had to get out before I got in. I started this blog with different intentions in Feb. of this this, but it has since been changed for me. I have grown in my faith and desire to be a watchman on the walls. I have ministered before and might do so again, but for now, this is my battlefield.
August 22nd, 2008 11:05 am
Clark,
You have to have the relationship with God to have the doctrines, etc. If we just have the doctrines we are missing the mark. We have to get to know the Creator and Founder of the doctrines.
The two statements you noted doesn’t mean a change. They were two comments that I believe. Basically you cannot have one without the other.
August 22nd, 2008 11:10 am
Jason (#68), I have to agree with Clark. This was posted over a week ago and suddenly, someone posted a link to it and well, it saw over 600 hits in just a few hours. There is a campaign of insulation, perhaps, for CCI. Perhaps you, David, Dan, and Laura, simply do not want the truth out there?
The love that is here is that we seek to warn others about things like Todd Bentley and CCI. Love is harsh at times, but only by those that are hurt by the truth. If you house was burning down, and you and your family were asleep, would it be love to quietly whisper ‘fire’? Or would your rather me to bust the door down, drag you and your family out kicking and screaming?
Jason, the house that CCI built is burning. If you care about yoru family and your friends, then you need to accept this love and this love is trying to pull you out.
August 22nd, 2008 11:13 am
Polycarp,
What were the intentions before?
Its nice that you want to be watchman. But we are to go and make disciples. Please expound about what one is supposed to do to grow in their faith, after realizing they have been decieved, etc.? You cannont just leave someone hanging in the air. So what is the follow up after the warnings?
August 22nd, 2008 11:14 am
Joshua,
Since you can’t have one without the other then why are you suggesting that I could have one without the other…? Unless you’re suggesting I have neither…
August 22nd, 2008 11:15 am
Polycarp and Clark,
About 90% or more of the bloggers here do not go to CCi.
August 22nd, 2008 11:17 am
Clark,
I wasn’t saying that you have one without the other. General statement. Do you think you can have one without the other?
August 22nd, 2008 11:28 am
Jason,
Dude I thought we were friends…
August 22nd, 2008 11:34 am
Josh -
Jason loves you too man!
It’s all good. Let this go…
August 22nd, 2008 11:35 am
Josh, you are right, there are a lot of hurts and hurting out there, and the hurts go incredibly deep for some. The blame game will get us nowhere. Unfortunately most churches have a bloody heap on the back lot somewhere. We must all work (and I mean work) to forgive one another for these things or we are holding ourselves back and contributing to the relentless massacre. It is up to each individual to make better choices in moving past hurts and hurtful situations. There must be honor and respect for each other as we do so, even if we do not see eye to eye. We live, we learn and then we get LUVS (hopefully).
Unfortunately, all of that hurt lies just under the surface and when the scab is bumped or scratched we are all back to bleeding again. We absolutely MUST keep ourselves Kingdom minded in order to overcome.
The fact is, as much as we don’t want to accept it and no matter where we are and where we sit on Sunday mornings (or Saturday nights), we are God’s children. That makes us brothers and sisters. Siblings may argue and fuss and even fight once in a while, but you know what? We are siblings non the less and with God as our Father, we do LOVE each other when we turn our focus off of ourselves.
The bottom line of this whole discussion should be Christ and him crucified. We can all agree that He is the basis of our faith. He did that for us, out of LOVE for us and because he wants us to experience that LOVE with Him, through Him and toward his other children. I really want that. I really do.
August 22nd, 2008 11:37 am
Joshua,
The Lord is revealed through His Word…Jesus is needed for salvation, He desires a relationship with us, a strong relationship with the Lord is only possible through His Word. His Word and the Holy Spirit are needed for understanding and growth. Of course you cannot have one without the other.
It’s just interesting how a week old post was bombarded in one day, regardless of where people attend church.
August 22nd, 2008 11:41 am
#74 – My intentions were merely a doctrinal discussion, but as it is with God, He will use the tool as He sees fit. I never wanted to blog before, but was pressed to do it.
#76 – That comment alone points a campaign of some sort.
August 22nd, 2008 11:48 am
# 80 – “The fact is, as much as we don’t want to accept it and no matter where we are and where we sit on Sunday mornings (or Saturday nights), we are God’s children.”
CC, can you show me where the above statement is even close to being biblical? Didn’t Christ say the opposite:
Further, who needs forgiving? Not sure where this ‘blame game’ stuff is coming from, but we are not attempting to blame anyone, just warn. If you feel that you need to forgive us, that is your option.
August 22nd, 2008 11:51 am
Clark,
OK good. I’m glad we agree that one cannot have one with out the other.
It is intersting. Obviously since there has been so much feedback. Words spreads fast!
August 22nd, 2008 11:56 am
Poly,
You still haven’t answered the question…Where do I go from here? What do I do? (general statement)
August 22nd, 2008 11:56 am
Joshua, would you care to tell us just how this word spread so fast? (I say this with humorous raised eyebrows)
August 22nd, 2008 12:01 pm
If someone realizes that they have been lied to, then they need to leave the place that they are going and seek a place of truth. They need to seek God, first of all, for the discernment to know the Truth. They need to turn first to the bible, to seek those things in there. They need to seek to rid themselves of the pride that will otherwise draw them back to the old place – no one likes to be wrong.
Joshua, is this leading somewhere?
August 22nd, 2008 12:06 pm
Joshua (85), for someone who has allowed themselves to be led astray I think a great start would be 2 Chronicles 7:14. You send them to the Word man…you aren’t catching this theme yet?
August 22nd, 2008 12:09 pm
I went to lay down a few minutes ago because I had a terrible headache. While resting I fell asleep and heard these words. The messenger cannot be separated from the message. The messenger is the message. Even Jonah didn’t like the message, but still was the message he took. It was a reminder of what I started out to do in responding to blogs.
We can run around who has not or who has been to CCI, but that is not the real issue. The issue is the messengers that are coming there or who are already there that we want to separate from their message.
When I first started responding to blogs, I was trying to separate the messenger from the message, it won’t work. you cannot proclaim what you do not believe and live.
I have very little to nothing against CCI itself, but I do have a great deal of problems with those I know and have experienced either coming out of there or who are coming to minister during the camp meetings. I wish I could separate the messenger from the message, but then I would be dishonoring my Savior, because he was the message. I am afraid I must hold all who proclaim to follow Christ to the same standard and I want to be held to it also. I must be the message I take or I am a liar.
Please, once again those who are being so violent with their responses, go over what you believe and make sure it is right believing before you lead someone astray and therefore suffer the millstone around the neck into the sea syndrome.
I am praying for all those involved, but mostly, I pray that God reveal the truth and totally disrupt the delusion that angels and gold dust are His way of being glorified. I have had 2 experiences with angels, one entertaining unaware that was revealed later, and one where the angel came and ministered to me and I knew that it was an angel. Neither told me anything strange. Both ministered peace and safety to me. I got no weird doctrine from them. I know how angels work from my previous experience, what has been betrayed during the meetings of these so called prophets are not true angelic visitations.
August 22nd, 2008 12:15 pm
Surrender, thanks for the comment and testimony.
August 22nd, 2008 12:18 pm
Surrender is same as Tammy…sorry…forgot to change to my old name so you could know who it was.
August 22nd, 2008 12:19 pm
Clark and Poly,
I got the theme, trust me. I am a big fan of follow up. For example. If I lead someone to Christ. I cannot just say OK you made the choice, now good luck with that! Hope you do well by yourself. I’ve got to help them get started. They are new and fresh to a completely new life now. I’ve got to help lay the foundation down for them and build those cornerstone that will hold strong in their relationship with Christ. Discipleship. The Bible says to hide the Word in your heart, always be ready to give a defense for the faith that you have.
I whole heartedly believe one needs to go to the Word and seek out Gods direction and guidence.
August 22nd, 2008 12:25 pm
Laura,
I know Jason and I are friends lol. It was a joke. I should have specified.
August 22nd, 2008 12:29 pm
Joshua, first and foremost, No one is casting anyone to their own fate. But, if they are coming from a place like CCI, then the first thing that they are going to need to do is to seek God.
Second, The foundation is the Apostles and Prophets, again, point towards the Word. Once they have some sort of since about them – remember, they are bing pulled away from a place like CCI – they will need a Church to attend. Once the foundation is laid of the Word of God, then they will have a bit better understanding and discernment so as not to end up in a place like CCI again.
If they were a sinner which no CCI then it would be a bit different.
August 22nd, 2008 12:35 pm
You all are going into places you need not go..again, I ask… DO you think God can not read what is being said against HIS children… HE AND HE ALONE DETERMINES who ARE HIS CHILDREN……..NOT YOU.. YOUR WORDS ARE GOING TO COME BACK AND BITE YOU…for with what measure you judge….you will be judged. you ca twist the Word to fit what ever suits you…bu
in the end…GOD HAS THE LAST WORD!!!
August 22nd, 2008 12:37 pm
CC -
GOOD JOB WELL SAID!!!
Polycarp -
Myspace does wonders for circulating the link, don’t ya think?
I’m not trying to cause trouble…It’s just the same ole arguements and this whole blog appears (at times) malicous -ON BOTH SIDES. The campaign is 2 sided and an attack from BOTH sides. I think everyone is tired of hearing it because there is never a resolution.
MANY people are jumping ship at cci (and other places) for MANY reasons – the final judgement for that will lie with the leadership. Let God do His job. He will expose what needs to be exposed in His time.
All this seems to do is stir the pot … this is the reason the rest of the world wants nothing to do with believers. I personally know folks that go running as far and as fast as possible away from EVERY believer because of this kind of thing.
90% of the people commenting are attendees or ship jumpers -everyone needs to take up their issues (good and bad) with David, or whoever, face-to-face. THEN pray for your leadership and turn your face to God and trust HIM to handle the situation….. You guys are letting polycarp stir you up and redirect your focus. Focus should always be on GOD alone and not what others post here. You’re not David’s or cci’s watchdog. Polycarp is going to continue to post and make statements – that won’t change no matter what you post.
Guys, go back to work or get a job or something and quit commenting and this will go away (for you), or at the very least, you won’t be so discombobulated.
Just a thought…
August 22nd, 2008 12:39 pm
Riddler,
You have baseless accusations. God has already determined these things and has given us a plumb line to measure these things by. You limit your biblical understanding to the ’sappy love’. Remember, Christ was not a hippy. He said that He did not come to bring peace, but a sword. A sword cuts.
August 22nd, 2008 12:44 pm
You know, I guess I just don’t have that many friends on myspace, but hey, thanks for the link posting. I wonder why the other article on CCI wasn’t that widely distributed.
Didn’t know the truth would get people so worked up. JI, it seems that when whomever posted the link, they didn’t realize that it would be this controversial.
Also, why are there so many ship jumpers? Are people seeing these false prophets for what they are? I doubt that my blog is the sole source for these revelations.
Maybe someone just picked up the bible one day.
August 22nd, 2008 12:46 pm
We have covered that the Word is where its at. What I am trying to communicate is that yes whether new or old to the faith ones has to stay to the Word. But we have to disciple each other. Work together. Build one another up in the Word in Spirit and in Truth. We have help other in the Word. Cannot just say go read and i hope they understand it. There is a lot to chew on and understand in the Word. Again discipleship. Follow up.
We don’t need to bring up CCi anymore. The warning is out there and said.
I do believe that also if one is following the Word and is in a church that may not be 100% of the word (not speaking about any church in particular), that we should help guide them and disciple them in the ways of the Lord. Too many times we critique others and let that be that and not try to help them out. It is easy to warn, critique, point fingers, etc etc. but the hard part is investing in someone life helping them grow closer the God.
August 22nd, 2008 12:55 pm
JI,
What you call discombobulated I call hungry.
August 22nd, 2008 12:59 pm
Joshua,
We can never cover the importance of the Word of God too much, and nor can the warning go out too much. It seems that you and others have jumped here for either a fight or perhaps in an attempt to correct me. I appreciate, more than they know, the help of Clark and Tammy in standing for the truth here.
You seemed to have turned your position around, as Clark pointed out.
You seem to retreat from the biblical stance that the Church is perfect. (Not the individuals) If you would digest the Word, you would know that we have to strive for perfection. There is a perfect doctrine, a unity of the faith, and a perfect body.
Would you rather not have us warn? Would you rather not have us grow? Joshua, it seems that you and those around you would rather have us sit on our hands than to tell the truth. Am I wrong?
August 22nd, 2008 1:05 pm
Polycarp I was just about to say something very similar about Jason’s attitude. Jason you don’t think your attitude has changed at all from yesterday’s posts?
August 22nd, 2008 1:10 pm
I have not jumped in for a fight. I jumped in for understanding. I have not tried to change your mind. I have said a number of times that the Word IS important. I have asked you many questions that you have not answered.
You do not back up anything you say with scripture. Yes you quote your purposes with scripture.
How did I turn my position around. I clarified the two comments Clark pulled out. I believe that you are reading into it as you see fit.
If you would read my comments vs. others they differ from each other.
What positions in your eyes have I been in?
August 22nd, 2008 1:20 pm
Joshua, perhaps you are asking questions on another blog, but I believe that I have answered every question posed in one way or another. I have backed up everything with Scripture. Would you care to actually clarify any of that?
BTW, if Clark answered something for I got a chance to, then there is no need for me to rehash it for you. As far as I can see, you have had every question answered.
My eyes have been focused on responding, not on campaigning.
August 22nd, 2008 1:24 pm
I meant Joshua in (102).
August 22nd, 2008 1:26 pm
Clark, it seems to me that his attitude has changed, but I would say purposely.
August 22nd, 2008 1:45 pm
Well I guess we could do this till we are blue in the face lol.
For us all; Be blessed!!! May God reveal to us all truth and understanding. God bring us closer to you every day! Help us to forgive the ones who have hurt and trespassed against us, Lord. Help us to ask forgiveness from the ones we have hurt.
God, protect us from the evil one and his followers. Help us put on the full armor of God. Help us be humble ourselves and pray! God help us pray for each other and not curse and point fingers.
August 22nd, 2008 2:58 pm
I’m banging my head against the wall…lol, this has been the strangest, most random assault/conversation I’ve ever experienced. Looking back Polycarp this was a pretty sweet “bad cop, good cop” routine. lol, amazing
August 22nd, 2008 3:41 pm
Bahahahahahahaha *inhale* buahhahahahahahaha…. whew.
Okay…
This is in response to B Clark Jr and anyone else who may misunderstand my stance; just to clear up something. I’m not a Christian. I’ve been delivered, saved. The friends I have that are Christians simply love me with the love of Christ in spite of how evil and devious and immoral I may be. I’ve studied the Bible all of my life, and I am an ordained minister (gets me better parking at the hospital and a discount at the Christian supply store when I run out of fresh Christians).
I was just simply making the statement that conversations like these running rampant amongst all the people who call themselves a “body” is only one part of the reason that I withdrew my membership from your club. Meanwhile, 25000 or so children will die of starvation today in the world while you righteously indignant people argue about something that in the big picture, just doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. This is the last time I’ll visit this, and I only wrote this because it was a cheap and mild 5 minute self-absorbed and devilish bit of entertainment for yours truly.
You can wrap a **** in chocolate, but when you bite into it, it still tastes like ****.
August 22nd, 2008 5:13 pm
Your last sentence sums up your posts rather well Dan…and I think everyone was pretty clear on your stance from the get-go.
To Dan’s “christian” friends: loving your enemy doesn’t mean you pay honor to his mockery. Dan your statements aren’t funny, since it’s not conversation you seek then I do hope your pride won’t bring you back to this site.
August 22nd, 2008 5:34 pm
#108 – You are right, Clark. It seems that this has been organized along with pat answers, but when pushed to provide details…well, I guess we can do this until we are blue in the face.
#109 – Dan, what a shame that you view the Church as a ‘club’. Yes, it is true that ‘modern Christianity’ is filled with bickering back and forth but then again, not everyone who calls themselves Christian is, well, Christian.
Dan, personally, I hope you stay around, as you might actually see the real love of God.
#110 – Clark, this is the problem with this entire crowd…they don’t understand the real love of Christ.
August 23rd, 2008 1:19 pm
Hello everyone again. This tropical storm has made staying online a real problem. I work on line so it has messed me up all the way around.
It looks like you boys have got this whole thing wrapped up; however, I would like to answer one of Joshua’s questions, what is the fruit of what you do Polycarp, here it is. Me.
When I first came on I was hurt, felt abused, abandoned and not sure what I felt about the Lakeland thing, just knew I wanted nothing to do with it, just not sure why. After reading, and messaging you and receiving wonderful words of wisdom and encouragement from you, I placed it all aside, sought God and realized, this stuff was dangerous I was involved in. I repented, turned and went the other way and promised God I will do all I could to warn people that God will not be played with like this. His ways are the only way and all this other is leading to another gospel and He will not tolerate it.
So, the fruit of Polycarp’s labor is me, the changes God made in me and the fact that now people are coming to me for prayer and my sister in law even came over Tuesday of this week and said she wanted to be saved. That, my dear friends, is revival. It is not about my efforts, but about Jesus, Him crucified, resurrected and alive and working in and through me. My face will not be on a TV screen, at least not for a proclamation of outpouring, but God is using me nonetheless and I am truly honored. I am honored to know Polycarp and Clark also. You go brothers. There is no fight like the fight of faith.
One more thing, if I read the terms no perfect church again, I think I will scream. No one in their right mind is looking for that, especially if they are imperfect people, but there are a few of us who are tired of being lied to and drug through the latest new now word, just because we are trying to submit to the leadership as taught, only to be hung out to dry and left hurt and wondering what just happened. Hense, the reason I don’t go to church anywhere. So far, all the ones I have visited since leaving the previous church, all are following this stuff. It is very scary.
Okay, enough on all of this. Tata for now.
August 23rd, 2008 11:50 pm
Hi Polycarp,
I hadn’t heard of this event until now. It’s sad, but I think that this type of thing will just continue. You know, as much as Dan was trying to stir up the pot, he did have a point. There are many other things – practical things that people can be doing to help others. If they used the same passion and zeal to help the poor and broken as they do in chasing these experiences, just imagine how much better this world would be. Maybe, just maybe, that would go along way in restoring credibility.
August 24th, 2008 7:32 am
Michael, I agree.
If we were to do the ‘Christian thing’ – spread the gospel, feed the poor, visit the fatherless, relieve someone’ burden – instead of seeking signs and wonders, this world would be a better place. These people are charging lots of money to attend an event like this. Where is the money going? Can you imagine the benefits to the poor and needy, or the causes, that the money raised could actually go to?
And what about the thousands of people that attended Lakeland? What if, instead, they had each decided to help someone with the time and money that they wasted on going there?
Yes, Michael, this would be a better world.
August 24th, 2008 4:56 pm
To the one who started this blog…
It’s sooo sad to see someone like you who must think your name is Holy Ghost. You seem to think you’re all knowing and can know the heart of a man. I’m sooo thankful I’m not in yur shoes. Remember what you sow is what you WILL reap. You’ve follow some of leaders around the country making a fool of yourself and you actually think your “called” to do it. Oh how very sad!! It’s obvious the only thing you know is “about” God-you don’t know “Him” or you would fall to your knees and repent for trying to cause confusion & hate. That alone tells the source of your comments. Just because you’ve been called to be accountable to leadership of a church and you wouldn’t stand the scurtiny you think you have the “call” to slam others to justify your own rebellion to God. Bump what others think about your rebellion- your issue is with the Lord of lords and the King of kings! You alone stand before Him for not only your actions but your heart attitude. I can promise you there are people on this blog that honestly will pray for you- that the veil of deception will be removed from your eyes and you will REALLY “know” Jesus not just keep Him in the covers of the Bible where you can fill safe. Everything you say is to try to divert the conviction of God off you. You can run but you cannot hide from the God who loves you with a love that is so meriful that He is giving you a chance to know Him and repent instead of stiking you like He did Aaron and Miriam for coming against their leadership. I know David Del Vecchio is not your leader but he is a man of God and the Word says not to touch God’s anointed. No, you don’t have the right or priviledge to say if his anointed of God or not because it’s God that anoints. He calls, He equips & He takes care of His kingdom He certainly doen’t need you to police it for Him.
August 24th, 2008 10:44 pm
Carole, I almost decided not to respond to you, as I tire of these judgmental emails decrying my judgment. I am not ‘judging’, just telling the truth. Please go here, here, here and here
But, Carole, it’s sooo sad to see someone like you who must think your name is Holy Ghost. You seem to think you’re all knowing and can know the heart of a man. I’m sooo thankful I’m not in yur shoes. Remember what you sow is what you WILL reap. You’ve follow some of leaders around the country making a fool of yourself and you actually think your “called” to do it. Oh how very sad!! It’s obvious the only thing you know is “about” God-you don’t know “Him” or you would fall to your knees and repent for trying to cause confusion & hate. ust because you’ve been called to be accountable to leadership of a church and you wouldn’t stand the scurtiny you think you have the “call” to slam others to justify your own rebellion to God. I can promise you there are people on this blog that honestly will pray for you- that the veil of deception will be removed from your eyes and you will REALLY “know” Jesus Christ. I will bring your name up at our Church, and in my nightly prayers. You forget the commandments of the God found in between the covers of that Bible that you disdain. Everything you say is to try to divert the conviction of God off you. You can run but you cannot hide from the God who loves you with a love that is so meriful that He is giving you a chance to know Him and repent instead of stiking you like He did Aaron and Miriam for coming against their leadership.
If David Del Vecchio is your ‘leader’, the you must leave his pastorship and go for one ordained by God. Your very soul depends on it. He is not anointed by God and it is doubtful that he every was. Carole, although you may live in the Panama City, but Carole, a true Church is not that difficult to find. I pray that you find one.
August 24th, 2008 11:03 pm
“for trying to cause confusion and hate”…?…Carole it seems you’ve missed the “organized attack” from the other day. Please just read all the comments to find out who is acting out in immaturity and a negligent attitude toward a biblical standard.
August 24th, 2008 11:06 pm
Clark, I guess I don’t see how I am a hatemonger. Is it because I tell the truth?
August 24th, 2008 11:35 pm
Polycarp, David is not my leader so you need to worry. I’m not going to get into arguing with you. You feel obligated apparently to spread division among the brethren(oh, I forgot you also get to say who is a believer) anyway you’ve got to answer for that. When you draw the attention to yourself and away for Jesus that should be a clue. Yes, of course one needs to guard carefully who they listen to and let speak into their lives and if doesn’t line up with they Word of God then let it go. I said the Word of God not the doctrines of men. Each of us needs to do our own studying and not rely on just what comes out of a pulpit. You seem to be determined to cause strife so I’m certainly not going to be any more a part of helping you do it. I remember the scripture that say “where there is envying & strife there is every evil work” and I don’t want any part of “evil work”. I hope that those who read your blog will for themselves pray and listen to the Lord’s leading not just your rant.
August 24th, 2008 11:40 pm
Carole, can you back up anything that you said with Scripture? When is interpretation of Scripture any private matter? Does the Church not have Apostles, Pastors and Teachers, and Evangelists? Are you your own judge of what the bible means? Carole, again, can you back up anything at all with Scripture.
What would you say if I said to mark those people out that do not follow the Bible? Not to associate with them? And to turn them over to Satan if they teach the wrong doctrine?
August 24th, 2008 11:46 pm
Maybe, or some people just trust their pastors a lot.
August 24th, 2008 11:57 pm
but she’s not going to argue…
Carol please go back and read your first post, you came to argue, not discuss.
August 25th, 2008 8:05 am
Clark, I trust my pastor, but I have no problem matching him against the Scriptures. None at all.
August 25th, 2008 8:11 am
That’s the difference.
August 27th, 2008 1:01 pm
Howdy all..One question for Carole, what kind of relationship do you have with your pastor that allows you to call him by his first name? If he is not your pastor, I was raised no matter whose pastor some man is, I never speak with disrespect and call him by his first name, but instead Pastor _____. The word rebellion you used on my friend and mentor Polycarp might could come back on you concerning you lack of basic respect for your own leadership, which is a form of rebellion.
So much is going on in this town of Dothan, I hope that many more read and turn their sights back to God and off of these false prophets who come to steal, kill and destroy God’s people.
For my fellow Dothanians: I will say one thing I do agree with Carole, lets do check everything with scripture and if your pastor does lie, you will be able to back it up. Unfortunately in the south, to many say amen without hearing all the words therefore agreeing with lies. Do you know that most of these men coming follow the thinking that the Now word is a word outside and not back necessarily by scripture? That they believe they have the ability to hear God for a new additional word apart from scripture. They quote enough scripture to make you think they know what they talk about, but when you check the scriptures and read the whole book or chapter, it does not match up with their discussion. All of Dothan, Be careful, be very careful. If you must go, go with your spiritual ears tuned carefully and the wisdom to match whatever you hear with what God’s says in His word. Just because a feather falls, does not mean an angel…remember vultures have feathers too. There is this thing called fool’s gold and all that Glitters is not gold, diamonds, rubies, etc. If you see pictures with fire, remember there are people who have pictures with ghosts which are at times also called orbs. God did not show tongues of fire in the upper room via pictures, the disciples saw them themselves. It was not a wooooo sight, but a miraculous sight. Be praying and fasting for discernment and do not be so gullable. Now, if you seek the counsel of the Lord and do not go, then you will not have to work so hard. If you do not, then be prepared to be overwhelmed with lies to sort through. Personally, I am too tired to sort through to many more lies. I am going to follow what God’s counsel and stay far from these men.
God bless all who enter Dothan, may you find God here and be free.
Just had to stop by and put in my 2 cents in. Stay cool Poly and Clark.
October 27th, 2008 7:31 pm
at the end of the day or (times) we will all be held accountable for our “works” the thing about deception, is that you don’t know it because. . . you’re being decieved, the Bible says we will know them by thier fruit. So let’s just love what’s unlovely, and watch the fruit of people’s lives to see if they are true or false. I admonish everyone of God’s people to repent and be baptized in the Holy Ghost to receive the Holy Spirit POWER to walk according to Torah which is the true Gospel of the Kingdom.
October 27th, 2008 7:39 pm
Jessica,
The Torah? Christ fulfilled the Torah. We are to follow the law of Grace now.
January 30th, 2009 8:24 pm
Polycarp, i have yet to meet someone who really speaks the truth, the word of God for what it is, sound doctrine… i have never joined a church because from my experiences none of the churches i have ever attented speak Truth, Im planning to move to Alabama sometime soon and would love to know where you attend church, as i would like to take part in the true body of christ.
January 30th, 2009 9:09 pm
ST, I am actually in WV. We have other locations, though. If you contact this one, he might be able to direct you to a good and sound church in Alabama. Of course, if you get a chance to visit us here in WV, that would be great.