The Jesus of Islam, the Muslim Christ, Rick Warren, and Isa.
Peter Kirk, the Todd Bentley-ite who believes that Obama should allow himself to be assassinated to be considered great as responded to post concerning the use of ‘Isa’ by Rick Warren (which was originally a post from Ingrid at the Slice). (Why does Peter’s support for Rick not surprise me?) Peter claims,
The claim in the second paragraph quoted above is not true. I checked with a Palestinian Arab Christian, from a Roman Catholic background stretching back centuries. He confirmed my understanding (see also this comment) that “Isa” is the form of the name of Jesus which has been used by Arab Christians, or at least the great majority of them, since time immemorial. There may be some non-traditional Arab Christians who use “Yesua” but this form is never used in mainstream churches or Bible translations. “Isa” is also used by Christians in many, but not all, Muslim majority countries. This is what Rick Warren probably knows, and is the basis for what he explains in this YouTube video (sorry for the poor quality) apparently taken from a sermon yesterday.
The problem is, is that the name ‘Isa’ for Jesus has been found only in the Qu’ran, and that have not existed since ‘time immemorial’.
According to Samuel Zwemer (The Jesus of Islam, the Muslim Christ, The Names of Jesus in Islam),
We turn now to consider what significance is attached to the proper names given by Moslems to our Lord, both as regards their form and their etymology.
The question why muhammad Mohammed used the word isa ÿIsa instead of yesua Yesuÿa, is more easily asked than answered. It is a stumbling-block to every Moslem convert who reads the Arabic Scriptures. Kamil Abd al Messiah, writing to Dr. Jessup from Aden after his conversion to Christianity, says: “Will you kindly send me a reply to this question: Why is Jesus styled isa ÿIsa in the Moslem books, and did this name exist among the Arabs before muhammad Mohammed’s time during the days of Ignorance?” 12
Dr. Jessup in his reply called attention to some of the explanations given. The first among them is that there is no particular significance in the form of the word, and that muhammad Mohammed invented it as a rhyming couplet to the name of Moses (Musa), in the same way as he changed the name of Goliath to Jalut, and that of Saul to Talut, apparently as a matter of rhythm, in the second chapter of the quran Koran (verses 248-253); and the names of the sons of Adam to Habil and Kabil in Moslem usage for Cain and Abel; or as he used the fanciful names, Harut and Marut, for the names of angels who taught men sorcery (Surah 2: 96). The difficulty with this theory is, as we have seen, that only in five cases is the name isa ÿIsa joined to that of Musa in the quran Koran text. In every other case there is no apparent reason for this particular form of the word because of the rhythm.
A second explanation given by some Arabic lexicographers is that the word has been deliberately formed by inverting the order of the letters in the Hebrew word yesua Yesuÿa. This explanation seems forced; nor can it be satisfactorily explained by the laws of etymology, for in reversing the letters not only are the vowels altered, but one of the weak consonants must be changed in yesua Yesuÿa to make isa ÿIsa. Beidhawi in his Commentary asserts that isa ÿIsa is the Arabic form of the Hebrew yesua Yesuÿa, and goes on to say that it comes from a root al ayos Al-ÿAyos, which signifies white mingled with red. 13
A fourth explanation is offered by Dr. Otto Pautz. 14 “The quran Koran expression isa ÿIsa corresponds with the Hebrew Esau, the name of the brother of Jacob (Israel). Because his descendants all through their history stood hostile over against the Israelities, who were the people of the promise, the later Jews caricatured the name of Jesus by making it Esau. muhammad Mohammed took this form of Esau from the Jews at Medina, without being conscious of the sinister import connected with the name in their minds.” We would like further proofs of this ingenious theory before accepting it, although it appears most plausible in view of all that muhammad Mohammed borrowed and adapted from Judaism. 15
(For more, click here.) According to the above author, it seems that even the Arabic scholars have a problem understanding Muhammad’s use of Isa. The issue of course, is not whether Isa is not used by Arabics, Christians or otherwise, to mean Jesus, but whether or not it is fitting and proper to do so.
If ‘Isa’ was invented by Muhammad to replace the Jesus of the Bible, then yes, Isa is improper.
In: Islam, Rick Warren · Tagged with: bible, Christianity, God, Isa, jesus, Jesus Christ, muslim, religion
on January 26, 2009 at 9:59 am
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If you have such a negative attitude towards me, why do you bother to read and respond to my blog?
Is it fit and proper to use the name “Jesus” to replace the Yeshua of the Bible? Who corrupted the original version? Does it matter? What’s in a name, anyway? We all know who is being referred to: Yeshua/Jesus/Isa the Messiah, greatest of the prophets, son of the virgin Mary, who is alive and will come again to judge the world – this much is agreed by Muslims and Christians.
on January 26, 2009 at 10:54 am
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Wow, Peter Kirk! You don’t know that Isa DID NOT die on the cross for the sins of mankind? You don’t know that Isa is NOT the Mediator between God and man?
Isa supposedly was born of the virgin Mary and will come again to judge the world, but what about the “stuff” inbetween ???
on January 26, 2009 at 11:08 am
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I agree.
Anyone who says they are one and the same, is believing a lie.
Peter Kirk, Rick Warren, et al…
This is not a minor point, it is the very foundation of Christianity as commanded in the Bible.
http://thatjesusthing.wordpress.com
on January 26, 2009 at 2:35 pm
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warren was just doing what warren always does- pander to the crowd so he would be beloved by all.
on January 26, 2009 at 2:37 pm
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Regarding Rick Warren, having gone through The Purpose Driven Life in our group Bible study (hey, it wasn’t my choice), he probably did in fact think that “Isa is Arab for Jesus” because he isn’t much for doing research, let alone exegesis and all that type of stuff.
Jeff
on January 26, 2009 at 2:44 pm
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Sorry for another post, but I’m not responding to Peter’s assessment, I’m just saying that if Rick Warren did err, it was probably out of ignorance. So I would give him the benefit of the doubt in one sense, but given his position and responsibility, it would be an egregious one. Since he’s Christian and the whole inauguration is in English, why not just use His name in English?
Jeff
on January 26, 2009 at 3:02 pm
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Why would he not use Jesus’ name in English? Would have made it biblical, and more clear. But Warren is not known to be “clear” in his apologetics. “Fence-sitter” is his middle name…
Warren was pandering to the Muslims by using their version, their perception, of a jesus. He knew exactly what he was doing.
on January 26, 2009 at 3:47 pm
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Jeff – how can I carry on a conversation with you striking a balanced middle ground.
I apologize. I try not to take the middle ground and am not a middle ground or centrist type person. To me that’s just for people who can’t make up their mind or have no convictions! Although I’m often that way when trying my best not to be too judgmental in a bad way when I don’t know the specifics of a situation.
I really can’t figure out this Rick Warren guy as far as his motives.
As far as him being a teacher and pastor, he doesn’t even know the basic fundamentals of Bible interpretation and he has one of the most popular Bible studies out there. This is not good. (I believe I’m not being judgmental on this one.)
And thanks for keeping this information about me confidential. I can’t remember anything I “learned” in The Purpose Driven Life because none of it was memorable.
Jeff
on January 26, 2009 at 4:24 pm
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No, I understood what you meant. When I said “I apologize” I was also half-joking. We probably both hate smilies (and maybe Peter too).
Have you heard much about Rick’s next innovation?
No I haven’t. There seems to be something new every few weeks and I can’t keep up with them. I can’t wait.
I suppose some people get sick of Piper’s “Don’t Waste Your…” and the people who have run with it but at least those are worthwhile as far as I’m concerned.
Jeff
on January 26, 2009 at 6:06 pm
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Simplicity in Christ, Isa = Jesus DID die on the cross, but some people tell lies about him, just as some people tell lies about Todd Bentley. Or are there two Todd Bentleys, one who committed adultery and one who didn’t?
(sorry about the smiley, Jeff).
on January 26, 2009 at 6:56 pm
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Jesus was neither killed nor crucified, but rather he was raised alive up to heaven … Islam rejects that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God, stating that he was an ordinary man who, like other prophets, had been divinely chosen to spread God’s message … Jesus is seen in Islam as a precursor to Muhammad, and is believed by Muslims to have foretold the latter’s coming
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus
Of course the Muslim God = Allah.
The Muslims believe in Jesus Christ? How can you believe that, Peter?
on January 26, 2009 at 7:51 pm
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It is a curse to agree with 2 differing sides, but here we go, The Quar’an , when it says Isa, is talking about our Jesus, the problem is the Qur’an lies about our Jesus. There is the doctrine of God, and the doctrine of demons. The Quar’an is not the doctrine of God. As for Rick Warren, I do not know his heart. If I am going to speak to Muslems, I do not mind using the name Isa, I speak to the Spanish speakers and say Jesu.
Simplicity in Christ is right, the Isa of the bible is Jesus, but not Jesus the Christ, our Messiah.
Zealot is right also, when Warren said Isa millions knew who was referred to, but those millions are ignorant of who He really is.
Work together folks, a battle is upon us.
on January 26, 2009 at 9:15 pm
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Jesucristo in Spanish is a direct translation for Jesus Christ. Isa is not a direct translation and if you use Isa with a Muslim, s/he will not believe you are speaking of the Mediator between God and men. S/He will believe, rightly so, that you speak of the Muslim jesus, a substitute for Jesus Christ.
Allah does not have a Son named Jesus. Neither does he have a son named Isa. But the true God does have a Son. BIG difference.
Warren used the name of Isa which is (as willohroots said) a lie. I agree it is a lie and Warren, as a minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, must know better. I can’t believe he could be so ignorant and sloppy.
willohroots, I don’t see how you can agree with both ways, but that’s totally up to you.
on January 28, 2009 at 12:45 am
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How do you teach Muslems about Jesus? I find it best to go into the Qur’an and show them the miracles attributed to Christ, and then tell the truth of the Gospel. Please share any better way.
on January 28, 2009 at 9:19 am
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Polycarp, you contradict yourself, and confuse your imaginary Muslim friend, by first saying (correctly) that “the Isa of the Quran is a butchered version of the true account found in the Gospels” and then trying to claim (incorrectly) that Isa and Jesus are different people. Are these two different accounts of the same person or accounts of two different people? Surely the former. But as I discovered over 30 years ago you get nowhere by saying “the Qur’an is wrong, the Bible is right”, as they just reply “no, the Bible is wrong, the Qur’an is right”.
on February 23, 2009 at 5:57 am
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Polycarp said:
The accounts of Isa is the story and myth of a creation of Muhammad.
I am a Muslim and I am certain about the truthfulness of the accounts of Isa alaihis salaam (peace be upon him). The accounts which have not changed for fourteen centuries, and I can swear in the name of God for that.
It is obligatory for a Muslim to believe in the return of Jesus son of Mary, and He would proclaim the truth of Islam. This may be shocking for many Christians but I have no other option than to believe this because of testifying that Muhammad is the Messenger of God.
The Ahmadis are declared apostate by all Muslims because they deny the return of Son of Mary.
For details,
http://www.jesuswillreturn.com
on March 5, 2009 at 5:53 am
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Polycarp
I can understand that your ideas are a result of centuries of programming by authorities of your religion.
Mathew 7:18
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
This is the litmus test for a true Prophet.
And, I would quote someone who is not even a Muslim.
W Montgomery Watt says:
By the eleventh century the idea about Islam and Muslims current in the crusading armies were such travesties that they had a bad effect on morale. The crusaders had been led to expect the worst of their enemies, and, when they found many chivalrous knights among them, they were filled with distrust for the authorities of their own religion.
How can you objectively prove me that he was not a sincere person.When I see this:
http://fazaileamaal.com/part1.htm
on March 9, 2009 at 5:46 am
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Polycarp,
You said:
My understanding of the Bible and then of Islam is shaped by my own studies
How can you be sure that your understanding of Islam is accurate and is precisely what a Muslim actually believes.
You are right when you say:should we then say the same about you?
So I retract my words:I can understand that your ideas are a result of centuries of programming by authorities of your religion.
I studied a review of Islam by a Christian,for the first time in my life, and it contained such inaccuracies which clearly gave the impression that he was trying to misinform the uniformed about Islam.
Let all of us realise that true God is essential for all of us. Talk seriously and objectively and keep emotions aside. Talk to each other not with the spirit of winning the argument, but learning what the other actually believes.
What I actually believe is that our life on this planet is a sojourn, in which God tests us and judges our goodness.
I believe that God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jesus is the true God.
God abhors arrogance.
Isaiah 2:17
The arrogance of man will be brought low
and the pride of men humbled;
the LORD alone will be exalted in that day,
The Holy Qur’an 16:23
verily He loveth not the arrogant.
diego, all of us have to die and return to our Creator, and all of us would be accounted for every single sinful act we commit. No one dies for the sins of others.
The Holy Qur’an 35:18
Nor can a bearer of burdens bear another’s burdens if one heavily laden should call another to (bear) his load. Not the least portion of it can be carried (by the other). Even though he be nearly related. Thou canst but admonish such as fear their Lord unseen and establish regular Prayer. And whoever purifies himself does so for the benefit of his own soul; and the destination (of all) is to Allah.
We cannot escape from death by being forgetful of it.
Mind the words of Jesus peace be upon him
Ecclesiastes 12:13
Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the whole duty of man.
God raised up a Prophet like Moses peace be upon him with a new Law for humanity.
Why Islam is not Muhammadanism because all the Prophets raised by God emphasized not their own persons, rather God and His Message has the real significance.
Deutronomy 18
17 The LORD said to me: “What they say is good.
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.
Muhammad peace be upon him spoke in God’s name, and when I listened to those words I found such spiritual strength to resist temptations that can only be experienced and not described in words. The words which give the strength to resist temptations in a world filled with homosexuality, adultery, fornication, rape, incest, pornography, alcoholism cannot have origins in anyone else other than God Himslef.
Sahih Bukhari
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 799:
Narrated Sahl bin Sa’d raa:
The Prophet peace be upon him said, “Whoever guarantees me (the chastity of) what is between his legs (i.e. his private parts), and what is between his jaws (i.e., his tongue), I guarantee him Paradise.”
If you have any questions about the Islam actually believd by Muslims, you can contact me at:
neorient@gmail.com
on March 17, 2009 at 3:42 am
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My comment could have been concise.
I would request anyone of you to respond.
I felt called upon to share with what I know, just like the Apostles felt called upon.
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/001.smt.html
Chapter 71: THE NECESSITY OF AFFIRMING THE PROPHETHOOD OF OUR APOSTLE MUHAMMAD (MAY PEACE BE UPON HIM) WHO IS THE APOSTLE SENT TO THE WHOLE OF HUMANITY, AND THE ABROGATION OF OTHER RELIGIONS WITH HIS RELIGION
Book 001, Number 0283:
It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: There has never been a Prophet amongst the prophets who was not bestowed with a sign amongst the signs which were bestowed (on the earlier prophets). Human beings believed in it and verily I have been conferred upon revelation (the Holy Qur’an) which Allah revealed to me. I hope that I will have the greatest following on the Day of Resurrection.
——————————————————————————–
Book 001, Number 0284:
It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: By Him in Whose hand is the life of Muhammad, he who amongst the community of Jews or Christians hears about me, but does not affirm his belief in that with which I have been sent and dies in this state (of disbelief), he shall be but one of the denizens of Hell-Fire.
I would once again request you to respond.
on March 19, 2009 at 2:32 am
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Polycarp,
You said:Muhammad created his accounts
Polycarp,I would repeat what I said earlier:Let all of us realise that true God is essential for all of us. Talk seriously and objectively and keep emotions aside. Talk to each other not with the spirit of winning the argument, but learning what the other actually believes.
I admire Peter’s intellectual honesty when he says:But as I discovered over 30 years ago you get nowhere by saying “the Qur’an is wrong, the Bible is right”, as they just reply “no, the Bible is wrong, the Qur’an is right”.
You said:and they were not codified until a few generation after his death.
No Muslim scholar or any impartial scholar will ever give credence to this. I would apreciate if you come with some original arguments to support your proposition. Insha Allah (God willing) if God hepled and He will definitely help to prove His Word you would never succeed.
Surah Al-Hijr
15:9 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
The Last Testament of God is incorruptible till the Resurrection without any need of codices, and the number of only in our times of those who have memorized the original Arabic text of The Holy Qur’an verbatim is in millions throughout the planet.
I have noticed that one thing is common to the most of the criticisms of Islam, that is, they reflect the negative religious and political experiences of the Western world. This is a typical example because there are Christian scholars who themselves doubt the credibility of Bible, e.g., Bart T. Ehrman. who says:
Not only do we not have the originals, we don’t have the first copies of the originals. We don’t even have copies of the copies of the originals, or copies of the copies of the copies of the originals. What we have are copies made later-much later. In most instances, they are copies made many centuries later. And these copies all differ from one another, and many thousands of places . . . Possibly it is easiest to put it in comparative terms: there are more differences among our manuscripts and there are words in the New Testament.
You said:Anyone can claim to be a prophet,
You are right, Polycarp.
but if that prophet leads a rebellion against our Lord, our only God, Jesus Christ, then that prophet is false.
Polycarp, being intellectually honest, would you stand by your word that it is the only reason to prove that Muhammad (may Allah bless Him and grant Him peace) is not a true Prophet.
1. He led a rebellion against our Lord
2. Jesus is God
If you can’t prove your case, then fear God who would call you to account.
Deutronomy 18
19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.
By Him in Whose hand is the life of Muhammad, he who amongst the community of Jews or Christians hears about me, but does not affirm his belief in that with which I have been sent and dies in this state (of unbelief), he shall be but one of the denizens of Hell-Fire.
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/001.smt.html
I would ask what is the definition of rebellion in Bible.
Muhammad (may Allah bless Him and grant Him peace) taught us to keep the commandments.It is the Christians who rebelled against God by not keeping the commandments.
Mathew 5
19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Deuteronomy 31
26 “Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you. 27 For I know how rebellious and stiff-necked you are.
You want me to believe that Jesus is God. I feel called upon to warn you that idolatry and polytheism is such a crime against God, that those who die in a state of polytheism, the gates of hell would never open for eternity for them.
Surah Annisa
إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَغْفِرُ أَن يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَلِكَ لِمَن يَشَاء وَمَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللّهِ فَقَدِ افْتَرَى إِثْمًا عَظِيمًا
VERILY, God does not forgive the ascribing of divinity to aught beside Him, although He forgives any lesser sin unto whomever He wills: for he who ascribes divinity to aught beside God has indeed contrived an awesome sin.
You want me to believe that God is the fruit of the loins of David.
You want me to believe that God can of his own self do nothing.
John 5
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.(Such a yielding to God is what Islam means)
You want me to believe in a God who doesn’t know everything.
Mark 13
32″No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
You want me to believe that God who can be tempted like humans.
Hebrews 4
but was in all points tempted like as we are
True God can never be tempted.
James 1
13 For God cannot be tempted by evil
Polycarp, and all those who read this, mind these words.
Ezekiel 23
49 You will suffer the penalty for your lewdness and bear the consequences of your sins of idolatry. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.
Surah Al-Araaf
قُلْ يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنِّي رَسُولُ اللّهِ إِلَيْكُمْ جَمِيعًا الَّذِي لَهُ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ لا إِلَـهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ يُحْيِـي وَيُمِيتُ فَآمِنُواْ بِاللّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ النَّبِيِّ الأُمِّيِّ الَّذِي يُؤْمِنُ بِاللّهِ وَكَلِمَاتِهِ وَاتَّبِعُوهُ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ7:158
Say [O Muhammad]: “O mankind! Verily, I am an apostle of God to all of you, [sent by Him] unto whom the dominion over the heavens and the earth belongs! There is no deity save Him; He [alone] grants life and deals death!” Believe, then, in God and His Apostle-the unlettered Prophet who believes in God and His words-and follow him, so that you might find guidance!
on January 26, 2009 at 10:12 am
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Peter, I have a ‘negative attitude’ to anything false, of which you blog promotes a great deal of in the course of defending Todd Bentley and the rest of ‘Joel’s Army’.
You are kidding me right? Can you not see the nuances of the Islamic version of this? Peter, how blind have you become?
on January 26, 2009 at 11:03 am
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Can you imagine comparing a false Jesus to the real Jesus and pointing and saying how much each have in common?
on January 26, 2009 at 3:16 pm
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Jeff – how can I carry on a conversation with you striking a balanced middle ground. I can understand the error. To be honest, until I did the research, I used ‘Isa’ for ‘Jesus’ as well; however, I do believe that if the research is shown to prove that Isa is not Jesus, then Rick would apologize. I believe that you are right, in that with Rick being a Christian, and an English speaker, he would have stayed with what he knew. I am against these public prayers for this reason – in that there is a call to be multicultural and ecumenical, which is at times contrary to the Gospel.
on January 26, 2009 at 3:21 pm
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And, Jeff, always feel free to comment as much as you would like. And promise to not to question the Purpose Driven Life exercises that you have done. Nor will I ever mention that you undertook the Purpose Driven Life study.
on January 26, 2009 at 3:58 pm
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Sorry, Jeff. My compliment came across poorly. I was intending to mean that you provide levelheadedness. Again, my regrets.
Have you heard much about Rick’s next innovation? It should be coming out shortly. It will connect millions of people to his bible studies, devotionals, news, etc… It’s like a world wide web of Rick.
on January 26, 2009 at 6:35 pm
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Are you now comparing Christ to Todd Bentley?
on January 28, 2009 at 1:39 am
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Willohroots,
I would like to say that I would use the same techniques that Paul used on Mar’s Hill..take the Isa and explain to them Jesus Christ. Explain to them that the Isa of the Quran is a butchered version of the true account found in the Gospels…the Gospels written 500 years before the Quran. But in the end, I would try to make it clear the Isa of the Quran is not the Jesus of the Bible.
To be honest, I really don’t know since I have witnessed to one.
on January 28, 2009 at 1:55 pm
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Peter, you are wrong when you say, ‘Are these two different accounts of the same person or accounts of two different people? Surely the former.’ The accounts of Isa is the story and myth of a creation of Muhammad. How can they be the same person? Muhammad provides a picture of a cowardly profit, a follower of Allah, and one of pure humanity. The New Testament presents God in the flesh, Emmanuel, born of a virgin, crucified under Pontius Pilate, buried, raised, was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. That is not the same person, Peter.
on February 23, 2009 at 9:24 am
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Elijah,
The accounts have changed. Muhammad changed Jesus into Isa and gave him a much lower position that the position held by Jesus Christ. Muhammad changed the accounts as given by the Apostles of Jesus Christ. It is Muhammad who is Apostate.
on March 5, 2009 at 8:29 am
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Elijah,
I am unsure of your point with this comment. My understanding of the Bible and then of Islam is shaped by my own studies, or should we then say the same about you?
I have no doubt that what Watt said was true – I do not think that the Crusades was anything religious, but political. So, what is your point?
on March 17, 2009 at 6:24 am
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Respond to what, Elijah?
Muhammad created his accounts, and they were not codified until a few generation after his death. Anyone can claim to be a prophet, but if that prophet leads a rebellion against our Lord, our only God, Jesus Christ, then that prophet is false.
on March 19, 2009 at 8:51 am
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Elijah,
Muhammad created his Gabriel vision, because no Gabriel in the Bible would have filled Muhammad’s mind with such lies. Islam stands squarely against the Gospel of Jesus Christ, denying the deity of Christ, among other things, and the validity of the Church. I actually know full well what Muslims believe, and I find it distasteful to read that Christ was a mere man, a prophet, but nothing more. Granted, your Isa will come to judge, but that does not connect him to the Christ of the Bible.
Your straw man argument of ‘I’ll stop my hears, and you will not prove anything, so you must be wrong’ is sad. No, no Muslim scholars can be expected to be impartial, but there are some. http://thechurchofjesuschrist.wordpress.com/2008/12/10/textual-criticism-and-the-quran-muhammad-was-a-fraud/
The Apostles believed, rightly, that the Gospel as delivered to the Apostles as delivered once and for all, yet you would have us believe in another gospel, and another way, another testament. This is antithetical to the Church as the keeper of the Doctrine. And it stands against the Scriptures who declared Christ as the only way for God to communicate to His creation.
Muhammad did in fact lead a rebellion against God by creating a new religion, and proclaiming himself a prophet, or rather the last prophet. He denied the Gospel, the Church and most importantly, the Jesus Christ was the Son of God, God in the Flesh. To do this, is to deny Christ.
I think you would do better to keep out of the issue of Law and Grace, as it applied to the commandments. There are plenty of other discussions going on on this very blog if you wish to assert that somehow the Church refused to obey the Law. The Law was fulfilled in Christ, and we are dead to the Law because of Christ (Romans 7.1-4)
I feel compelled to warn you, that any person who worships another God is worshiping demons. You see to forget that Muhammad was a false prophet, so anything that he says is contemptible as a commandment. It does not stand as the word of God.
Elijah, Islam is a false way, and it will lead to a place where you do not want to spend eternity. If you desire to strongly to see Muhammad, then continue on your road, but if you want to see Jesus Christ, and to be with the Father, then Elijah, we will pray for you.