Comments on: Are Calvinists turning into ESV-Onlies? http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2009/07/are-calvinists-turning-into-esv-onlies/ fides quaerens intellectum Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:17:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Scripture Zealot http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2009/07/are-calvinists-turning-into-esv-onlies/#comment-9580 Scripture Zealot Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:08:28 +0000 http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/?p=9907#comment-9580 10% is a larger difference than one might think. The TNIV is only about 6% different than the NIV and the difference is significant. Jeff 10% is a larger difference than one might think. The TNIV is only about 6% different than the NIV and the difference is significant.
Jeff

]]> By: Joel http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2009/07/are-calvinists-turning-into-esv-onlies/#comment-9579 Joel Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:50:06 +0000 http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/?p=9907#comment-9579 I'm reformed, I love the ESV, but I also find it funny that it is only about 10% different than the RSV that it came from. Sometimes you can read them side by side with no difference. And yet most reformed folks never liked the RSV, the evangelical trajectory was KJV - NASB - NKJV - NIV - ESV. I think the RSV was more of a 'mainline' Bible. And yet, it is the mother of the ESV. I’m reformed, I love the ESV, but I also find it funny that it is only about 10% different than the RSV that it came from. Sometimes you can read them side by side with no difference. And yet most reformed folks never liked the RSV, the evangelical trajectory was KJV – NASB – NKJV – NIV – ESV. I think the RSV was more of a ‘mainline’ Bible. And yet, it is the mother of the ESV.

]]> By: Polycarp http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2009/07/are-calvinists-turning-into-esv-onlies/#comment-9578 Polycarp Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:24:24 +0000 http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/?p=9907#comment-9578 Yeah, I am not too. Yeah, I am not too.

]]> By: Wickle http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2009/07/are-calvinists-turning-into-esv-onlies/#comment-9574 Wickle Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:14:06 +0000 http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/?p=9907#comment-9574 I know several people who do seem to be heading in an ESV-only direction. I didn't realize it until recently when I remarked to a friend of mine (joking), "Gee, now the ESV is big. I remember when my NIV made me the height of cool! {Sigh} Ah, well, I'm behind the times again." He answered, "Well, NIV is okay, but the ESV is really what you need." I'm not rushing out to get one right now. I know several people who do seem to be heading in an ESV-only direction.
I didn’t realize it until recently when I remarked to a friend of mine (joking), “Gee, now the ESV is big. I remember when my NIV made me the height of cool! {Sigh} Ah, well, I’m behind the times again.”
He answered, “Well, NIV is okay, but the ESV is really what you need.”
I’m not rushing out to get one right now.

]]> By: Polycarp http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2009/07/are-calvinists-turning-into-esv-onlies/#comment-9570 Polycarp Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:41:59 +0000 http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/?p=9907#comment-9570 Thanks Suzanne. I'll be posting more on this tomorrow. I will be interesting to see what John Hobbins has to say. Thanks Suzanne. I’ll be posting more on this tomorrow. I will be interesting to see what John Hobbins has to say.

]]> By: Suzanne http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2009/07/are-calvinists-turning-into-esv-onlies/#comment-9568 Suzanne Sun, 05 Jul 2009 23:23:26 +0000 http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/?p=9907#comment-9568 Oops - try again. I have posted the entire article by R.C Sproul in which he criticizes the TNIV.  Sproul bases his criticism on the false statement that the Tyndale, KJV, and Luther Bible used the expression “sons of God” in Matt. 5:9. Unfortunately the supporters of the ESV base their attack on the TNIV on false assumptions about Bible translation. http://powerscourt.blogspot.com/2009/07/esv-onlyism-and-sproul.html Oops – try again.
I have posted the entire article by R.C Sproul in which he criticizes the TNIV.  Sproul bases his criticism on the false statement that the Tyndale, KJV, and Luther Bible used the expression “sons of God” in Matt. 5:9.

Unfortunately the supporters of the ESV base their attack on the TNIV on false assumptions about Bible translation.
http://powerscourt.blogspot.com/2009/07/esv-onlyism-and-sproul.html

]]> By: Suzanne http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2009/07/are-calvinists-turning-into-esv-onlies/#comment-9571 Suzanne Sun, 05 Jul 2009 23:21:49 +0000 http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/?p=9907#comment-9571 I have posted the <a href="http://powerscourt.blogspot.com/2009/07/esv-onlyism-and-sproul.html">entire article by R.C Sproul</a> in which he criticizes the TNIV.  Sproul bases his criticism on the false statement that the Tyndale, KJV, and Luther Bible used the expression "sons of God" in Matt. 5:9. Unfortunately the supporters of the ESV base their attack on the TNIV on false assumptions about Bible translation. I have posted the <a href=”http://powerscourt.blogspot.com/2009/07/esv-onlyism-and-sproul.html”>entire article by R.C Sproul</a> in which he criticizes the TNIV.  Sproul bases his criticism on the false statement that the Tyndale, KJV, and Luther Bible used the expression “sons of God” in Matt. 5:9.
Unfortunately the supporters of the ESV base their attack on the TNIV on false assumptions about Bible translation.

]]> By: Polycarp http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2009/07/are-calvinists-turning-into-esv-onlies/#comment-9573 Polycarp Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:24:37 +0000 http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/?p=9907#comment-9573 Jeff, I am just starting to explore the Reformed side of things, and this disturbs me already. Jeff, I am just starting to explore the Reformed side of things, and this disturbs me already.

]]> By: Brian http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2009/07/are-calvinists-turning-into-esv-onlies/#comment-9572 Brian Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:18:54 +0000 http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/?p=9907#comment-9572 yet another reason I tend to leave my copy of the ESV on the shelf.... yet another reason I tend to leave my copy of the ESV on the shelf….

]]> By: Scripture Zealot http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2009/07/are-calvinists-turning-into-esv-onlies/#comment-9575 Scripture Zealot Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:10:04 +0000 http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/?p=9907#comment-9575 I'm Reformed and am not a fan of the ESV. I'm saddened to continually hear these things from a small group of influential Reformed men. Jeff I’m Reformed and am not a fan of the ESV. I’m saddened to continually hear these things from a small group of influential Reformed men.
Jeff

]]> By: R. Mansfield http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2009/07/are-calvinists-turning-into-esv-onlies/#comment-9577 R. Mansfield Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:31:51 +0000 http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/?p=9907#comment-9577 Much of Reformed evangelical thought in the US is being controlled and dictated by a handful of individuals that I'd prefer to not name publicly at the moment, but I'd be glad to tell you offline. Honestly, some of them have an inadequate understanding of translation theory method that has been well documented. Many of them are under the misguided belief that  a formal equivalent translation is the ONLY right method of translating the Bible. Thus, they don't like the NIV, NLT, and TNIV. Many of them are also so far to the right when it comes to gender issues that they don't care for gender inclusive readings even in the face of the fact that many of these renderings (such as "brother and sister" for <em>adelphoi</em>) are actually more accurate than their supposedly more literal readings. Now, this is ironic because a translation like the NLT actually has Reformed thinkers on the translation committee such as Douglas Moo & Thom Schreiner, both respectable scholars. So the extremists of the Reformed mindset are actually attacking their own kind in the process of denouncing a translation like the NLT. Interestingly, the main problem with the NLT (that I have--and I use it in spite of this) is that it often <em>over translates</em>. A case in point in which I think it over-translates in favor of Reformed thought is a verse like 1 Cor 1:24-- <em>But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.</em> The Greek refers to <em>those who are called</em> (αὐτοῖς δὲ τοῖς κλητοῖς). Yes, salvation is a byproduct of being called by God, but we are called to more than just this. So, often with this kind rendering, I am surprised that there are not more Reformed Christians embracing the NLT. And of course, some do. Much of Reformed evangelical thought in the US is being controlled and dictated by a handful of individuals that I’d prefer to not name publicly at the moment, but I’d be glad to tell you offline. Honestly, some of them have an inadequate understanding of translation theory method that has been well documented. Many of them are under the misguided belief that  a formal equivalent translation is the ONLY right method of translating the Bible. Thus, they don’t like the NIV, NLT, and TNIV. Many of them are also so far to the right when it comes to gender issues that they don’t care for gender inclusive readings even in the face of the fact that many of these renderings (such as “brother and sister” for adelphoi) are actually more accurate than their supposedly more literal readings.
Now, this is ironic because a translation like the NLT actually has Reformed thinkers on the translation committee such as Douglas Moo & Thom Schreiner, both respectable scholars. So the extremists of the Reformed mindset are actually attacking their own kind in the process of denouncing a translation like the NLT.
Interestingly, the main problem with the NLT (that I have–and I use it in spite of this) is that it often over translates. A case in point in which I think it over-translates in favor of Reformed thought is a verse like 1 Cor 1:24–
But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
The Greek refers to those who are called (αὐτοῖς δὲ τοῖς κλητοῖς). Yes, salvation is a byproduct of being called by God, but we are called to more than just this. So, often with this kind rendering, I am surprised that there are not more Reformed Christians embracing the NLT. And of course, some do.

]]> By: Are Reformers Becoming ESV Only? | Onward, Forward, Toward... http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2009/07/are-calvinists-turning-into-esv-onlies/#comment-9576 Are Reformers Becoming ESV Only? | Onward, Forward, Toward... Sun, 05 Jul 2009 19:55:13 +0000 http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/?p=9907#comment-9576 [...] , in his article entitled Are Calvinists turning into ESV-Onlies? links to a very interesting article from a blogger who has now lost respect with RC [...] [...] , in his article entitled Are Calvinists turning into ESV-Onlies? links to a very interesting article from a blogger who has now lost respect with RC [...]

]]> By: ESV Only? | Onward, Forward, Toward... http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2009/07/are-calvinists-turning-into-esv-onlies/#comment-9569 ESV Only? | Onward, Forward, Toward... Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:31:34 +0000 http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/?p=9907#comment-9569 [...] , in his article entitled Are Calvinists turning into ESV-Onlies? links to a very interesting article from a blogger who has now lost respect with RC [...] [...] , in his article entitled Are Calvinists turning into ESV-Onlies? links to a very interesting article from a blogger who has now lost respect with RC [...]

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