I’ve been reading J. Lee Grady on line, and on Twitter for a bit now. During the days of the Todd Bentley fiasco, he was wholeheartedly in the Dominionist camp – then he started to come around to what I like to call reality. He broke ranks with Rick Joyner and the New Apostolic Reformation, and declared the death of the Charismatic movement.
I don’t get Charismatics, I really don’t. I mean, I am not a cessationist, but I do not believe that the Spirit of God works here and doesn’t work at this time or in that place. Yet, J. Lee Grady speaks of waves and movements. Just how biblical is that? When God moves, He moves, doesn’t he? It is really based on waves, rains, and movements? He quotes from Isaiah 43.19, in which God speaks about the new things – the problem with these Charismatics is that for them, God is always doing new things. In this passage, it is singular, not plural; the ‘new thing’ was Christ and His Church (See Jeremiah 31.22).
In J. Lee Grady’s latest article, he says:
Rather than worshiping God around a monument to the past, let’s find out where He’s going and follow the glory cloud.
The problem that I have with this, is that God easily tells us where He is heading, and thus, where we are heading. It is supposed to wind down, at some point, but for Charismatics, it is always winding up with new movements, new subcultures, new things. Jude says that we have a faith once and for all delivered to the Saints – Charismatics say that better things are coming. Paul says that a great falling away will happen – Charismatics look for a great end time revival.
Like J. Lee Grady, these Charismatics make God look rather foolish – as if He is unable to fulfill His plans, rather, that His plans fail:
But He may not move today in the same way He did in 1975; the strategies He gave us in 1990 are not necessarily for churches now. The Holy Spirit doesn’t want us to follow a rote formula; He wants us to seek His presence as He moves through history.
We are told that God never changes, that Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday, and forever – but these Charismatics would have us believe that God changes from generation to generation. No one wonder people are lost – no one knows where to go.
July 1st, 2009 9:08 am
I agree this is different – but I do want to say Pentecostalism is still alive to be certain – it is flourishing mainly in the Southern Hemisphere (Asia, South America, Africa) – but on the serious decline in the States. Strangely enough, not a Pentecostals or Charismatics are alike. There can be quite a bit of vaiation on the larger spectrum of beliefs (from looney to sane). Sadly, it’s always the looney’s that get all the attention….
July 1st, 2009 12:14 pm
[...] Discovery has been viewed thousands of times) or pertaining to Todd Bentley my views massively Charismatic Movement: Dead or Alive? – thechurchofjesuschrist.us 07/01/2009 I’ve been reading J. Lee Grady on line, and on [...]
July 1st, 2009 1:02 pm
I agree that the “waves” or “moves” aren’t as spotty as they are portrayed, but there is considerable scriptural authority for an “end time revival” to use your language. I think the book of Joel foretells an “end time revival” as does Romans 11 (I think). I think you can dissect when, where or how it will happen, but scripture suggests that it will. I think “charismatics” all get lumped together. I like the distinction Joseph Prince makes: there are charismatics and crazimatics.
July 1st, 2009 6:11 pm
Thank you. It is refreshing to hear sanity in the midst of all the noise.
July 2nd, 2009 12:38 pm
That sounds interesting. I would love to. I don’t know what your schedule is, but I do not have the luxury of posting as frequently as I would like, but I would be willing to give it a go. The key word as far as I am concerned is “friendly.” Let me know.
July 2nd, 2009 4:29 pm
I am swamped on Monday, but Tuesday is great for me. Unless you wanted to write on Monday, and I would write on Tuesday, etc.
July 6th, 2009 8:00 pm
[...] post is in response to a friendly discussion with Peter Lopez from Beauty of the Bible, another excellent biblical blog. We are hoping to simply [...]
July 1st, 2009 10:51 am
I agree, Brian. Often, people confuse pentecostalism with the charismatic movement (and often times, pentecostals confuse themselves with charismatics). I think people need to focus on the well grounded, not on ‘movements,’ ‘waves,’ and etc….
July 1st, 2009 5:27 pm
Peter, I would love to engage you in this discussion concerning the ‘end time revival (I do not believe that there will be one), perhaps in friendly blog posts? I am dismissed all charismatics, but you are right, there are some that take to a rather unbiblical level.
July 1st, 2009 6:16 pm
You are most welcome, Joe. Personally, I could say the same thing about you. Wish I was going with you next month.
July 2nd, 2009 4:12 pm
Peter, how about a one post each, then one response. We can remain friendly in this, simply because I hope that you are right! And if I am right, that doesn’t mean anything, because we still have to work for the kingdom? Should we start on Monday?
July 2nd, 2009 4:33 pm
That would be great, Peter. I look forward it to.