Hey, I liked your post documenting the Mormons’ view on social justice, but I’m not boycotting Zondervan over this. And, while I don’t watch Glenn Beck because there are other things on that I like to watch, I don’t ban myself from watching Glenn Beck. If he has a problem with politically liberal churches, that’s his right. And it’s our right to listen to him, or not to listen to him, as we may please.

Hey, I liked your post documenting the Mormons’ view on social justice, but I’m not boycotting Zondervan over this. And, while I don’t watch Glenn Beck because there are other things on that I like to watch, I don’t ban myself from watching Glenn Beck. If he has a problem with politically liberal churches, that’s his right. And it’s our right to listen to him, or not to listen to him, as we may please.

James, that is the point of a democracy – that we get to decide for ourselves what information we take in (which is why I am against the Fairness Doctrine). In my opinion, it is my right and indeed duty not to support him or the organization which either directly or indirectly support him. I haven’t purchased anything related to Zondervan for a long time because of their association with FoxNews.

It is the right of Glenn Beck to say what he wants to say, regardless if it is of the most idiotic and untrue tripe yet known to man, but when it comes to attacking Christianity – not just politically Liberal, but everyone Church which proclaims that socio-economic Justice is a piece of the Gospel message which is a large portion of the Christian religion – then I feel it is my right to offer up solutions.

James, that is the point of a democracy – that we get to decide for ourselves what information we take in (which is why I am against the Fairness Doctrine). In my opinion, it is my right and indeed duty not to support him or the organization which either directly or indirectly support him. I haven’t purchased anything related to Zondervan for a long time because of their association with FoxNews.

It is the right of Glenn Beck to say what he wants to say, regardless if it is of the most idiotic and untrue tripe yet known to man, but when it comes to attacking Christianity – not just politically Liberal, but everyone Church which proclaims that socio-economic Justice is a piece of the Gospel message which is a large portion of the Christian religion – then I feel it is my right to offer up solutions.

That’s true—it’s your right to boycott. It’s my right not to boycott. But some, such as Jim Wallis, talk like it’s our Christian duty not to watch Glenn Beck. I have issues when someone tells me what to do in the name of Christianity (a statement of mine that needs to be qualified, I’m sure).

Also, it’s important to ask what Glenn Beck is arguing against. People on the web have so many definitions of social justice, that some are saying Glenn Beck opposes helping the poor through charities. I seriously doubt that’s the case. He’s against churches that promote political liberalism.

That said, I don’t feel bound by what Glenn Beck tells us to do, either. If I ever want to attend a church that’s politically liberal, I will do so. I don’t need anyone’s permission. At this moment in my life, though, I don’t care for churches that get into politics. That includes the ones that act like God is a Republican (which make me sick), as well as those that rant against Bush from the pulpit.

That’s true—it’s your right to boycott. It’s my right not to boycott. But some, such as Jim Wallis, talk like it’s our Christian duty not to watch Glenn Beck. I have issues when someone tells me what to do in the name of Christianity (a statement of mine that needs to be qualified, I’m sure).

Also, it’s important to ask what Glenn Beck is arguing against. People on the web have so many definitions of social justice, that some are saying Glenn Beck opposes helping the poor through charities. I seriously doubt that’s the case. He’s against churches that promote political liberalism.

That said, I don’t feel bound by what Glenn Beck tells us to do, either. If I ever want to attend a church that’s politically liberal, I will do so. I don’t need anyone’s permission. At this moment in my life, though, I don’t care for churches that get into politics. That includes the ones that act like God is a Republican (which make me sick), as well as those that rant against Bush from the pulpit.

James, to be fair, I do agree with Jim Wallis on this. It’s kinda like watching the gladiators fight Christians. I don’t think watching that really is meriting the Christian audience.

What Glenn is fighting against is conspiracy theories based on the basest of knowledge, which as been shown he lacks, time and time and time again. People on the web include racists, homophobes, atheists, nazi’s, etc… What Glenn is fighting against is the theme of Christianity, which if expressed, would undue his own personal religion. This is not political liberalism, but a stance for the Gospel.

Regarding your last paragraph – I agree completely. I don’t want to know if my pastor or church leadership is a Republican or a Democrat. I don’t want politics preached from the pulpit, whatsoever.

James, to be fair, I do agree with Jim Wallis on this. It’s kinda like watching the gladiators fight Christians. I don’t think watching that really is meriting the Christian audience.

What Glenn is fighting against is conspiracy theories based on the basest of knowledge, which as been shown he lacks, time and time and time again. People on the web include racists, homophobes, atheists, nazi’s, etc… What Glenn is fighting against is the theme of Christianity, which if expressed, would undue his own personal religion. This is not political liberalism, but a stance for the Gospel.

Regarding your last paragraph – I agree completely. I don’t want to know if my pastor or church leadership is a Republican or a Democrat. I don’t want politics preached from the pulpit, whatsoever.

I can somewhat see your point, Joel, since there are right-wing outlets that demonize and (in a sense) dehumanize the other side, and I don’t find that particularly Christian. At the same time, they do shine the light on corruption and shenanigans. One reason that the government decided to do something about ACORN was because of the exposes of Glenn Beck and people like him.

I may not have made myself clear in my second paragraph. My point there is that Glenn Beck probably isn’t against helping the poor, even though people are accusing him of such because they have a particular understanding of social justice—being concerned about the poor. But maybe Glenn Beck’s definition of social justice when he criticized it was different from that of just helping the poor or giving to charities.

I can somewhat see your point, Joel, since there are right-wing outlets that demonize and (in a sense) dehumanize the other side, and I don’t find that particularly Christian. At the same time, they do shine the light on corruption and shenanigans. One reason that the government decided to do something about ACORN was because of the exposes of Glenn Beck and people like him.

I may not have made myself clear in my second paragraph. My point there is that Glenn Beck probably isn’t against helping the poor, even though people are accusing him of such because they have a particular understanding of social justice—being concerned about the poor. But maybe Glenn Beck’s definition of social justice when he criticized it was different from that of just helping the poor or giving to charities.

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James,

Could you share with me how the problems with some of ACORN’s people was enough to doom the program, especially when the amount of God which ACORN does goes unnoticed? Further, noting that the tapes which were presented by the ‘pimp’ (who was later arrest for Federal Crimes) has been heavily edited, and that fact that the interview was reported to the police….but yet, where is that in consideration?

Glenn Beck is creating his own understanding of social justice and then aligning everyone else with it, measuring them by the standard which he has created – and it is a standard which is not upheld by those who seek justice for the oppressed. I note that he uses the Nazi’s a lot to demonstrate his view points, but it was the Nazi’s who were on the far right.

James,

Could you share with me how the problems with some of ACORN’s people was enough to doom the program, especially when the amount of God which ACORN does goes unnoticed? Further, noting that the tapes which were presented by the ‘pimp’ (who was later arrest for Federal Crimes) has been heavily edited, and that fact that the interview was reported to the police….but yet, where is that in consideration?

Glenn Beck is creating his own understanding of social justice and then aligning everyone else with it, measuring them by the standard which he has created – and it is a standard which is not upheld by those who seek justice for the oppressed. I note that he uses the Nazi’s a lot to demonstrate his view points, but it was the Nazi’s who were on the far right.

I’m not an ACORN expert, but Glenn Beck had on people who were once in ACORN, who discussed shady business. He challenged the head of ACORN on his show as well. I’m not sure if I’d say the program should be ended, but it’s not wrong to be concerned about how it’s spending our tax dollars.

Also, I think his point about the Nazis is legitimate—whether or not he has all the details right. Why do people on the Left call people on the Right “Fascists”? That makes little sense to me, as least if we’re talking about the libertarian part of the Right. Fascists and Nazis didn’t believe in less government.

I’m not an ACORN expert, but Glenn Beck had on people who were once in ACORN, who discussed shady business. He challenged the head of ACORN on his show as well. I’m not sure if I’d say the program should be ended, but it’s not wrong to be concerned about how it’s spending our tax dollars.

Also, I think his point about the Nazis is legitimate—whether or not he has all the details right. Why do people on the Left call people on the Right “Fascists”? That makes little sense to me, as least if we’re talking about the libertarian part of the Right. Fascists and Nazis didn’t believe in less government.

James, if you read the history of the Fascists, they were the Extreme Right. This is the important thing – when you are spouting information to raise the level of fear in your audience, please, please have your facts and details right.

Every organization has shady business practices – no excuses there, but Beck’s attack against, like his attack against Christians, is politically motivated, using half-truths, just a little leaven you know, to create a picture which motivates people who choose to listen to Beck instead of researching the matter for themselves.

James, if you read the history of the Fascists, they were the Extreme Right. This is the important thing – when you are spouting information to raise the level of fear in your audience, please, please have your facts and details right.

Every organization has shady business practices – no excuses there, but Beck’s attack against, like his attack against Christians, is politically motivated, using half-truths, just a little leaven you know, to create a picture which motivates people who choose to listen to Beck instead of researching the matter for themselves.

Joel, the Fascists were nationalists, which could be considered right-wing. But they did not support limited government. Nor did the Nazis. They were not “less government is best,” “government keep out of our lives” conservatives. Are you suggesting that they were?

I also submit that the popular way of understanding the political spectrum is deeply flawed. So the Communists are the far left and the Fascists are the far right. Where’s an Anarchist fit on that spectrum?

Joel, the Fascists were nationalists, which could be considered right-wing. But they did not support limited government. Nor did the Nazis. They were not “less government is best,” “government keep out of our lives” conservatives. Are you suggesting that they were?

I also submit that the popular way of understanding the political spectrum is deeply flawed. So the Communists are the far left and the Fascists are the far right. Where’s an Anarchist fit on that spectrum?

James, this is not about the ‘popular way of thinking’ but about the very real, and political scientific, method of scoring these things.

By your definition, Reagan was a leftist.

There is more than just one axis on the scale.

James, this is not about the ‘popular way of thinking’ but about the very real, and political scientific, method of scoring these things.

By your definition, Reagan was a leftist.

There is more than just one axis on the scale.

James, this is the standard, run of the mill, been there for ever, spectrum.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/European-political-spectrum.png

James, this is the standard, run of the mill, been there for ever, spectrum.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/European-political-spectrum.png

Okay, Joel, here’s where the Nazis were right-wing: they were against homosexuality, they were against Communism, they were against abortion (of Germans), they were militaristic, they were anti-pornography, they appealed to religion (until they tried to remake it). Maybe you can add to the mix a National Security state.

But Hitler also had gun control. Is that right-wing? Hitler also created a totalitarian (or at least an authoritarian) state, which could interfere in the economy. Frederick Hayek—one of the fathers of conservatism, whose book Margaret Thatcher slammed on the desk at a Conservative Party meeting and said “This is what we believe in”—documents and criticizes that feature of Hitler’s rule. The Nazis are actually the example he uses to argue that, when we allow the government to control the economy, we’re giving up our freedom.

That’s what Glenn Beck and the tea-partiers have in mind when they bring up Nazism. They fear that Obama is giving the federal government too much power, and that this is similar to what the Nazis did.

Okay, Joel, here’s where the Nazis were right-wing: they were against homosexuality, they were against Communism, they were against abortion (of Germans), they were militaristic, they were anti-pornography, they appealed to religion (until they tried to remake it). Maybe you can add to the mix a National Security state.

But Hitler also had gun control. Is that right-wing? Hitler also created a totalitarian (or at least an authoritarian) state, which could interfere in the economy. Frederick Hayek—one of the fathers of conservatism, whose book Margaret Thatcher slammed on the desk at a Conservative Party meeting and said “This is what we believe in”—documents and criticizes that feature of Hitler’s rule. The Nazis are actually the example he uses to argue that, when we allow the government to control the economy, we’re giving up our freedom.

That’s what Glenn Beck and the tea-partiers have in mind when they bring up Nazism. They fear that Obama is giving the federal government too much power, and that this is similar to what the Nazis did.

What am I doing up here? Joel, my new comment is up here!

What am I doing up here? Joel, my new comment is up here!

The threaded comments only go soooooo far (5 I think)

The threaded comments only go soooooo far (5 I think)

Thanks for the chart. I’ve taken that test before, but it’s good to be reminded. I’d put Reagan more in the “conservative liberal” category—which is on the right. I’m assuming that means limited government in the economic sphere, John Locke style. Yet, he was pro-life on abortion. But he wasn’t a thorough cultural conservative, for he supported allowing homosexuals to teach in schools.

James, if you examine the map, you will see that ‘right wing’ is linear. Hitler was far right, as he was authoritarian.

Far right is not just about the economy. Note that Bush gave the government large amounts of power. So did Lincoln.

The reason that Beck brings up the Nazi’s is to cause fear.

Thanks for the chart. I’ve taken that test before, but it’s good to be reminded. I’d put Reagan more in the “conservative liberal” category—which is on the right. I’m assuming that means limited government in the economic sphere, John Locke style. Yet, he was pro-life on abortion. But he wasn’t a thorough cultural conservative, for he supported allowing homosexuals to teach in schools.

James, if you examine the map, you will see that ‘right wing’ is linear. Hitler was far right, as he was authoritarian.

Far right is not just about the economy. Note that Bush gave the government large amounts of power. So did Lincoln.

The reason that Beck brings up the Nazi’s is to cause fear.

I have to admit, that when you begin to really examine the right and left in this country, it becomes foggy at times.

I have to admit, that when you begin to really examine the right and left in this country, it becomes foggy at times.

Yeah, but there are American conservatives who criticize Bush and Lincoln for that. Bruce Bartlett, who served in the Reagan Administration, criticizes Bush’s big government policies. So does Richard Viguerie, one of the founders of the New Right in the 1970′s. Phyllis Schlafly bashes Bush pretty hard. There are books by conservatives that criticize Lincoln—such as the one by—oh, I can’t think of his name, but he teaches at Loyala, and his book’s called the Real Lincoln. But, yes, there are also conservatives who appeal to Lincoln suspending Habeus Corpus to justify an aggressive track in the War on Terror.

Part of the problem is one of definition, because there are different kinds of conservatives, who hate one another. I think Beck comes more from the libertarian variety—at least that’s how he identifies himself.

Yeah, but there are American conservatives who criticize Bush and Lincoln for that. Bruce Bartlett, who served in the Reagan Administration, criticizes Bush’s big government policies. So does Richard Viguerie, one of the founders of the New Right in the 1970′s. Phyllis Schlafly bashes Bush pretty hard. There are books by conservatives that criticize Lincoln—such as the one by—oh, I can’t think of his name, but he teaches at Loyala, and his book’s called the Real Lincoln. But, yes, there are also conservatives who appeal to Lincoln suspending Habeus Corpus to justify an aggressive track in the War on Terror.

Part of the problem is one of definition, because there are different kinds of conservatives, who hate one another. I think Beck comes more from the libertarian variety—at least that’s how he identifies himself.

I remember Looney fundamentalist had a funny article on that subject. He was looking at the “far right” party in a European election, and he found things in its platform that we Americans wouldn’t consider all that conservative!

I remember Looney fundamentalist had a funny article on that subject. He was looking at the “far right” party in a European election, and he found things in its platform that we Americans wouldn’t consider all that conservative!

Beck comes from….well, I’ll let that one go by for how….but most likely, he will be going back to the same place, even if it is for an age or three

But, you are correct. The issue with conservatives and liberals is the variety, so when we start talking about, people generally do not sit down to weigh the evidence.

Beck comes from….well, I’ll let that one go by for how….but most likely, he will be going back to the same place, even if it is for an age or three

But, you are correct. The issue with conservatives and liberals is the variety, so when we start talking about, people generally do not sit down to weigh the evidence.

I kind of stick with Diane Sawyer for my news these days. She has a sweet-motherly quality, and there’s no shouting!

I kind of stick with Diane Sawyer for my news these days. She has a sweet-motherly quality, and there’s no shouting!

Yeah, I’ve limited my MSNBC take to about an hour a day. Otherwise, I try the online sources, namely the CSM.

Yeah, I’ve limited my MSNBC take to about an hour a day. Otherwise, I try the online sources, namely the CSM.

News Corp also owns Beliefnet and Bible Gateway. Would you suggest a boycott of these sites?

In Fiji, News Corp owns the Fiji Times one of the two daily newspapers. Following the latest coup in 2006, the military régime has inflicted onerous censorship on both papers, and deported Australian editors and staff. News Corp has continued to exercise it’s democratic right to publish the Fiji Times despite the extreme conditions. To not publish would be to bow to the wishes of the bullies in the military régime.

News Corp is not all bad. Can you really base a boycott of a company on a dislike of one person’s opinions, no matter how looney those opinions may be?

In Europe the NIV and TNIV are published by Hodder & Stoughton owned by French company Lagardère, not by Zondervan. So it is possible buy an NIV that is not published by News Corp.
eg. http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/034097978X/thechuofjesch-20/

And Tyndale publishes an NIV. http://www.tyndale.com/x_products/details.php?isbn=9780842348928

News Corp also owns Beliefnet and Bible Gateway. Would you suggest a boycott of these sites?

In Fiji, News Corp owns the Fiji Times one of the two daily newspapers. Following the latest coup in 2006, the military régime has inflicted onerous censorship on both papers, and deported Australian editors and staff. News Corp has continued to exercise it’s democratic right to publish the Fiji Times despite the extreme conditions. To not publish would be to bow to the wishes of the bullies in the military régime.

News Corp is not all bad. Can you really base a boycott of a company on a dislike of one person’s opinions, no matter how looney those opinions may be?

In Europe the NIV and TNIV are published by Hodder & Stoughton owned by French company Lagardère, not by Zondervan. So it is possible buy an NIV that is not published by News Corp.
eg. http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/034097978X/thechuofjesch-20/

And Tyndale publishes an NIV. http://www.tyndale.com/x_products/details.php?isbn=9780842348928

NT, it is not just one man’s opinions – it is the entire channel for one. Beck’s opinions, however, aren’t merely political, but now reaching into religion. So, unless Christians show their disfavor – you know, like they do time and time again by boycotting this or that over homosexuality – then Beck will continue to go on.

NT, it is not just one man’s opinions – it is the entire channel for one. Beck’s opinions, however, aren’t merely political, but now reaching into religion. So, unless Christians show their disfavor – you know, like they do time and time again by boycotting this or that over homosexuality – then Beck will continue to go on.

For the record, I didn’t boycott Disney either. I wasn’t going to give up Aladdin, Little Mermaid, Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, Mulan—all these beautiful, family-friendly films—just because Disney chose to extend benefits to same-sex couples, or made a raunchy film like Priest every now and then. I think that’s why a lot of boycotts don’t work—because not enough people are willing to sacrifice. Years ago at a church I attended, we were given American Family Association guides with sponsors of networks and TV shows, and we were told that if we wanted to get junk off television, we needed to go to the sponsors! Now, at least by AFA standards (which are too high), TV shows have more objectionable content than when I got that AFA guide!

For the record, I didn’t boycott Disney either. I wasn’t going to give up Aladdin, Little Mermaid, Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, Mulan—all these beautiful, family-friendly films—just because Disney chose to extend benefits to same-sex couples, or made a raunchy film like Priest every now and then. I think that’s why a lot of boycotts don’t work—because not enough people are willing to sacrifice. Years ago at a church I attended, we were given American Family Association guides with sponsors of networks and TV shows, and we were told that if we wanted to get junk off television, we needed to go to the sponsors! Now, at least by AFA standards (which are too high), TV shows have more objectionable content than when I got that AFA guide!

What Glenn Beck was talking about was denominations that support abortion, homosexuality, euthanasia, racism, laws like healthcare that pay for abortions and sex change operations and other unAmerican values like redistribution of wealth all in the name of “social justice”. One example would be denominations like United Church of Christ that Obama belonged to: http://www.ucc.org/justice/issues.html
or pastors like Jeremiah Wright (he married the Obamas) at Obama’s old church Trinity United Chrurch of Christ, the same UCC.org denomination above, who spew racism and curse America: http://www.trinitychicago.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=114
Go to Youtube and search Jeremiah Wright and you’ll find racist comments like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3wh2XT4e8M&feature=related
THESE are the churces Glenn Beck is telling Christians to leave

What Glenn Beck was talking about was denominations that support abortion, homosexuality, euthanasia, racism, laws like healthcare that pay for abortions and sex change operations and other unAmerican values like redistribution of wealth all in the name of “social justice”. One example would be denominations like United Church of Christ that Obama belonged to: http://www.ucc.org/justice/issues.html
or pastors like Jeremiah Wright (he married the Obamas) at Obama’s old church Trinity United Chrurch of Christ, the same UCC.org denomination above, who spew racism and curse America: http://www.trinitychicago.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=114
Go to Youtube and search Jeremiah Wright and you’ll find racist comments like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3wh2XT4e8M&feature=related
THESE are the churces Glenn Beck is telling Christians to leave

Uh, no, Diane, he’s not.

BTW, if you had ever listened to the entire sermon you would understood what he is saying, but I take it that you listen to soundbites instead of the entire thing, don’t you?

I know a lot of UCCer’s who do not support those things, which, btw, is a rather large generalization.

‘UnAmerican.’ You mean like slavery, genocide, racism, anti-semitism, anti-catholicism? You mean values like that?

Uh, no, Diane, he’s not.

BTW, if you had ever listened to the entire sermon you would understood what he is saying, but I take it that you listen to soundbites instead of the entire thing, don’t you?

I know a lot of UCCer’s who do not support those things, which, btw, is a rather large generalization.

‘UnAmerican.’ You mean like slavery, genocide, racism, anti-semitism, anti-catholicism? You mean values like that?

Very nice site, I found this site interesting as well. http://www.foxnews-boycott.com

Zondervan also produces the Satanic Bible, its number 6 best seller. All the more reason to not buy their garbage they try to pass off as good and Holy

Dennis, I don't think people care about who they support anymore…