Archive for category Doctrine
N.T. Wright on Anslem, Piper, and where to begin proper theology
I am trying to write a short paper comparing Anselm and Abelard and their views on justification, so like all great thinkers on this issue, I turn to N.T. Wright for clarity. He writes,
…that Anselm of Canterbury, who gave a massive impetus to Western thought on the person and work of Jesus…was working within a highly judicial context. He drew on Latin concepts of law and “right” and applied them to the biblical sources in a way which, as we can now see, was bound to distort both the essentially Hebraic thought-forms in which the biblical material was rooted and the first -century Greek thought-forms within which the New Testament was designed to resonate…
….sixteenth and seventeenth century supplied so many new ideas and categories from the concepts and controlling stories current at the time that, while they remain a wonderful example and encouragement in many things, they must not be taken as the final court of appeal. (The same could be said, once more, of Anselm and the categories of his day.) It is worrying to find Piper encouraging readers to go back, not to the first century, but to “the Christian renewal movements of sixteenth-century Europe.” To described that period as offering the “historic roots” of evangelicalism is profoundly disturbing. Proper evangelicals are root in Scripture…” (47, 51)
Question of the Day: What are our mandated textual presuppositions?
Posted by Joel in Debate/Discussion, Inerrancy on November 19, 2010
In our discussion group this week, we read Adam Hamilton‘s description of the the battle over the bible. I believe that he accurately describes the various tugs and pulls over higher and lower criticism, inspiration and inerrancy, and the like. He ends the chapter with a great allegory using the Eucharist to describe his view of Scripture. I would encourage you to get the book, because I’m not going to tell you about his view.
But, the question remains, for me, is to what extent does the supernatural, or faith, or simply ‘other’ play into whatever form of criticism we use in understanding the bible?
I enjoy reading Thom Stark’s book, The Human Faces of God, because it is dealing with some of this, at the very least, passively, trying to get the inerrantist to understand what he or she may doing to the text. But, what if we completely deny the work of God in the Text? What if we simply allow the text to be human? First, of course, I think we then destroy what the Text is. Second, we destroy our connection and draw to the text.
What are our mandated presuppositions, or the lack thereof, in dealing with the text?
A wonderful picture of getting the bible wrong…
Consistent, sure. Unless you read books such as Joshua (Genocide, woo-whoo!) and Ecclesiastes (There is no justice, wisdom doesn’t matter, so eat, drink and have lots of fund) and Job (God is a puppet-master). But, remember this post?
Anyway, so some took offense to it and created this image,

The Bible is VERY Consistent | The Resurgence.
So issues I have with the advertisement of the image –
Compare this to the 439 alleged contradictions
Alleged? Have you read the bible? Okay, so Doug Wilson takes an instance of a supposed contradiction and shows that it isn’t, but the point remains, that there are inconsistencies . The issue I have with all of this is that people have seemingly replaced Christ with the need for an infallible text. We see this as it takes shape in numerous ways, including KJVOism.
Anyway, it’s a busy day today, so I thought I’d share.
Baptism – ‘Real but Imperfect Communion’ – RCC and CRC sharing the rite

- Image via Wikipedia
All I can say is – wow –
A new accord between U.S. Catholic leaders and Reformed churches would be a “milestone in the ecumenical journey” and would aid interaction with Reformed Christians at the parish level, a bishops’ conference official has said.
The document, titled “Common Agreement on Mutual Recognition of Baptism,” is the result of six years of study and discussion between the U.S. bishops’ Committee for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs and representatives from the Presbyterian Church-USA, the Reformed Church in America, the Christian Reformed Church, and the United Church of Christ.
Fr. Leo Walsh… explained that the accord would foster awareness of Baptism as the basis for “the real but imperfect communion that exists among Christ’s followers.” It would also prohibit the use of “innovative” liturgical formulas.
….
Mutually recognizing Baptism as “the gateway to eternal life” would advance Christian unity in obedience to Jesus’ prayer that “all may be one,” Fr. Walsh added.
Proposed Catholic-Reformed agreement on Baptism would be ‘milestone’ :: Catholic News Agency (CNA).
I want to hold my thoughts on this for a bit, for several reasons. I will say, however, that I prefer orthopraxy to a strict orthodoxy, and if communion can be shared via baptism and the Eucharist…
What do you think?
A Wonderful Picture of how Atheists Get the Bible Wrong
Thanks to Robert for posting this on my Facebook wall:

According to the website,
The organization here is pretty simple. You’ve got bars at the bottom representing the 1,189 verses of the King James Bible. White’s for the Old Testament, gray’s for the New Testament. Then a red arc links all the verses that contradict each other.
The King James Bible. Lovely.
Then, again, all this does is to show that the wrong use of literalism carries over even when someone loses their faith…
And of course, the commentary from this site,
Some of the contradictions are less “contradictions” and more or less a misunderstanding of the biblical text. But of course, when you’re trying to inspire skepticism, “understanding the text” as well as the point of the biblical literature isn’t what’s important. Pointing out apparent “fallacies” works if you’re simply trying to… 1) Preach to the “choir” (albeit an atheist choir) or 2) Discredit scripture.
If only they would take as much time to study the bible as they do to create pretty pictures likes this…
The Nuance of Christian-Speak
I’ve been thinking… about the words we say in which we say it. When I say something, what do you hear? (Or, I guess write/read)
When I say inspired, what do you think I mean?
Or inerrant?
Or Literal?
What about when I say God? What is the first thing that pops into your mind?
Or Bible, Scripture, Text, Holy Writ, and Word of God?
Love? Love of God?
Jesus? Christ? Christ Jesus?
Christian?
When we use these words, how do you think others hear them?
What if I said that I believe that the Text was inspired? Or that I believe we need to interpret Holy Writ in the literal sense?
Reflections on Thom Stark’s The Human Faces of God – Part 2
Posted by Joel in Book Review, Inerrancy on November 10, 2010
For the start of the series, start here.
He’s right. When inerrancy is taken to its logical level there is a lack of pure claimants; however, Stark is wrong in assuming that inerrancy is acted out only by biblical literalists (Although he attempts to correct this view, too late in my opinion, on page 40. Of course, since most inerrantists rely on the Chicago Statement which stresses literalism, he has evidence for his assumption.) Today, modern inerrancy is taking on the notion that the bible was delivered correctly, not that everything in it is correct. For example, in discussing inerrancy with others, I use the example of Job’s friends. My friends counter that not everything in the bible is correct, good and true, but it was delivered inerrantly. I think that Stark falls into the same trap with demanding that inerrantists must be biblical literalists, although he does note that new get-arounds are developed from among the community. What inerrantists falter at, he is correct, is that they have created within the canon a smaller canon, and even in that a smaller one than that! Christians no longer listen to the laws proscribed by Leviticus or some of the uglier points in the Prophets. Could I entice you to beg God to destroy the infants of your enemies as the Psalmist did in 137? On the surface, and at the climax of the doctrine, inerrancy leaves you answering only yes. And this is where inspirationists divide from inerrantists, even if they do not know it yet. And here again, he is correct that to counter the growing suspicion that inerrancy is not of the historical faith, and that it creates more problems than it solves, many inerrantists attempt to use other devices to solve their self-created riddles. If, as Stark notes, the same method of producing inerrancy (see his discussion on p18) was used by the Church Fathers, I would imagine that many of them could not have seen Christ so poignantly in the Hebrew Scripture. Inerrancy is not interpretation, but the lack thereof.
There is much to say about interpretation and those who practice the craft, such as biblical mention doesn’t mean divide allowance, but I suspect that this conversation is for another post.
I suspect that if inerrantists who were pastors would remove themselves from the debate, and step back to look at their own sermons, they would fully understand what Stark covers in his discussion on Ancient Jewish Hermeneutics, finding themselves well in line with the interpretative tradition. Interpretation generally didn’t involve what ‘really happened’ but examined what was happening in the now by what happened then. For an example, the Gospel of Matthew. By taking the eleventh chapter of Hosea and comparing it to the life of the young Holy Family, he could see the connection of the two. It was not that Hosea was speaking about Christ or that the Evangelist was examining the story of Exodus through Hosea’s interpretation, but that he saw in Christ and the flight to and from Egypt the events of the now mirrored in the words of the ancient prophet. Stark is right in pointing out that,
Interpretation was not a careful process of historical-grammatical exegesis, but an inspired identification of a “hidden meaning” in the text with a present-day reality or concern. (p20)
Further, I believe that he does well to show Daniel’s less than literal reinterpretation of Jeremiah’s 70-year prophecy wouldn’t make it if examined under the light of the Chicago statement. As I stated before, neither would Matthew’s (a particular prophecy is pointed out by Stark on p28-29), the author of Hebrews, Paul (as the author points on on p30-31) or many of the early Church Fathers’. As he moves into extra-canonical sources, namely the Qumran sect(s), we see the act of subjective interpretation developing full steam, with all too familiar associations with our modern sects. Of course, much to the disconcerting effects of inerrantists, Stark goes and ruins his section here with pointing out the very real fact that the Qumran sect(s) and the New Testament writers have a similar interpretative style (p26-27). While he is correct, it is still going to be disconcerting for those who believe that the New Testament was written in a vacuum.
Moving into the Patristic writers, Stark shows that he is able to confront with mainstream church history the doctrine of inerrancy. While I would caution that his reading of Marcion is too simplistic, I believe that he handles Origen and Augustine and their view of literalism well. In doing so, the author shows that the early Church wrestled with Scripture, and in the end, authoritative didn’t always mean inerrant. I do think that the lines of inerrancy and literalism are mangled in their mingling, but not necessary by Stark are others, but by such groups as the signers of the Chicago Statement; Stark simply resolves to answer them on their terms.
After discussing the ‘evidence’ of the Text and Patristic authors, Stark moves on to modern fundamentalists. I hate to use that word in a disparaging sense because I know a few that I couldn’t disparage, which is I why I try to separate the belligerent from the non-belligerent with the word extreme. I note that the author doesn’t fully disparage the idea that Scripture interprets Scripture but roundly takes to task those who use this method while attempting to hold to a historical-grammatical approach. Further, he notes fully the corner which those who are attempting to profess to only one right way of interpretation which they feel must necessary beget inerrancy but aren’t afraid of using others in a pinch are pushed into. Inerrancy is a redaction of the divine inspiration of Scripture, and thus a human face of God, as Stark might would put it.
Regarding his interpretation of 1st Timothy 2.12-14, I do believe that in attempting to showcase the problem here of inerrancy, he inadvertently dismisses the culture context of the passage and what the author may have been saying, which would still upset inerrantists. It seems that he is almost grinding an ax with Mark Driscoll.
For me, my faith is Christ and Scripture is more secure of these facts, not less. The fact is, I try to use Scripture as it said of itself to be used, as the inspired instrument for the person of God (2nd Timothy 3.16). This is a great book, by the way, whether I agree or disagree with some of the points.








