Posts Tagged Talmud
Moving Ahead with Burning the Qu’ran…oh and the Talmud
Posted by Joel in Religion and Politics on September 7, 2010
This is Terry’s Gospel
This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ
But I say, do not resist an evil person! If someone slaps you on the right cheek, offer the other cheek also. If you are sued in court and your shirt is taken from you, give your coat, too. If a soldier demands that you carry his gear for a mile, carry it two miles. (Mat 5:39-41 NLT)
See the difference?
TC notes,
“We realize that this action would indeed offend people, offend the Muslims. I am offended when they burn the flag. I am offended when they burn the Bible. But we feel that the message that we are trying to send is much more important than people being offended.” (Excerpts and video from CNN here)
Pastor compares himself to Jesus: “Plans to burn Qurans on Sept. 11″ | New Leaven.
Also, he plans on burning the Talmud as well because, um, well, what excuse was it for burning the Qu’ran?
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- Protest church’s plan to burn Quran (religion.blogs.cnn.com)
Jewish-Christian Resources on the ‘Net
Posted by Joel in Criticism, Messianic Judaism on August 6, 2010
Ancient Jewish Accounts of Jesus
Josephus, Celcus, Tertullian, Talmud, Toledoth Yeshu – full texts with introductions..
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/JewishJesus/Several books on Jesus and Judaism collected by Messianic Jews
– incl. Christianity in Talmud and Midrash by R. Travers Herford
and Jesus Christ in the Talmud, Midrash, and the Zohar by Gustav Dalman
(which both deal with the censored Talmudic passages about Jesus)
http://www.saltshakers.com/lm/TRENT – Traditions of the Rabbis in the Era of the New Testament
– earliest traditions dated and explained, esp for NT relevance
Preview at http://www.T-R-E-N-T.comInto His Own – Primary Jewish sources for background of the NT
http://virtualreligion.net/iho/index.html
You can find more ancient Jewish resources here.
Beginning Thoughts on The Only True God – Copernicum (5)
Posted by Joel in Book Review, Godhead, Theology on July 29, 2009
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I have been reviewing James McGrath’s book, The Only True God: Early Christian Monotheism in Its Jewish Context. While I do not want to give away the ‘spoilers’ so to speak, I want to give an honest review, so here it goes:
During the first chapters of the book, McGrath lays out well his understanding of monotheism in ancient Judaism, which he continues to build upon in later chapters. It is here, as any good author does, that he plants seeds which is brought to fruition as he progresses. It is also here where he gets my attention with such motifs for monotheism as worship and creation.
McGrath approaches the subject with care, and almost apprehension, so as to not go too far too fast. He writes for the common reader, often explaining himself in more detail than perhaps he should – but this is to the reader’s advantage. Further, from time to time he leads his readers back to previous explanations, reminding them before he proceeds.
More Thoughts on The Only True God (4)
Posted by Joel in Book Review, Godhead, Theology on July 28, 2009
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By now, most of you know that I have been reviewing James McGrath’s latest book, The Only True God: Early Christian Monotheism in Its Jewish Context. This will be my last in the series of the rolling reviews, with a final review to follow sometime this week.
In this chapter co-written with Dr. Jerry Truex, McGrath dialogues with Alan Segal’s theory on the Two Powers Heresy in early Rabbinic Judaism. Segal interprets this theory as a ‘principal angelic or hypostatic manifestation in heaven was equivalent to God.’ (p124, n1). Segal’s point, I believe, is that he feels Christianity developed from this hypothetical heresy supposedly found in 1st century Judaism, or at the very list, Segal believes that the two powers heresy found in later Jewish sources refer to the burgeoning Christian movement.
This, besides the endnotes, is the major problem of the book. While some may find it pleasing to see McGrath dialogue with others on this subject – primarily Hurtado and Bauckham, it feels to me as if I am joining a trilogy on the last few pages of a book. While I do not dismiss the need for such dialogues, especially in this field, I feel that more attention should have been given to establishing arguments independent of other works, not based as a response to them (if this was possible).
In this chapter, McGrath sufficiently answers – from what I could find in the endnotes and other responses from various sources to Segal – Segal’s theories, especially the redating of such theories. He notes the ‘shortcomings’ in the theory which forgets redaction time in the Mishnah and Tosefta. The author does well in making the point that it is possible that either this heresy didn’t exist in the 1st century Judaism (which would prevent Judaism and Christianity from separating over it) or that it simply was not considered a heresy (which would prevent Judaism and Christianity from separating over it).
Further, the author(s) begins to delve into answering the direction of monotheism in Judaism based on sacrificial (cultic) worship which had to take place due to destruction of the Temple in 70 a.d. McGrath makes comments in regard to failed Messiahs, such as Bar Kochba (and by virtue other Messiahs that had been tried as criminals before Rome, found guilty, and executed), which should open the conversation up to why Judaism and Christianity began to diverge. It is here that he makes great strides in winning me over to a portion of his argument concerning the separation of Judaism and Christianity, that it was not monotheism (of the 1st century version of Monothesim) which separate the two, but perhaps a single (failed) Messiah.
McGrath briefly discusses the issues around Rabbi Akiba and his endorsement of the failed messiah figure of Bar Kochba(p87-89). Because of his endorsement of a leader who was later rejected by the Jews because a failed revolt and subsequent execution at the hands of the Romans, later passages in the Talmud associated with the Rabbi a (vague) reference to the belief in ‘two powers.’ While this is a passing discussion (concerning the failed Messiah) it is a hint of the separation, I believe.
In answering the dating and general thoughts by Segal, McGrath also begins to answers the questions regarding the separation of Judaism and Christianity. A theory (p92) is developed by McGrath which relates that the separation, in part, came from a need to redefine Monotheism in light of the end of sacrificial worship. While previous generations of Judaism allowed for divine agency, after the destruction of the Temple, a line had to be drawn which focused worship only on God, removing any allowances for worship of a secondary individual. It came down to creation – the lines began to be drawn. While it was not the notion of a divine agent being worshiped which first separated Judaism and Christian, as sacrificial worship ended, and monotheism was seemingly redefined, the idea of worshipping Christ as God became a severe separator.
This chapter, like the one on John’s monotheism is again, copernicum.
Do Jews have a Jesus problem?
Posted by Joel in Messianic Judaism, Religious News on May 19, 2009
How this for a little evening news – from here:
It was not always thus. Indeed, the texts discussed in the best book of the recent crop, Peter Schafer’s “Jesus in the Talmud,” were once considered so outrageous that they were self-censored from European editions of the Talmud. Not that the attempt succeeded: Christian authorities burned the Talmud anyway, and antisemitism continued unabated. But the censorship did succeed somewhat; these texts are practically unknown even today.
And they are still somewhat scandalous. What Schafer shows is that the rabbis of the Talmud knew the New Testament well enough to parody it and were concerned enough about the growth of the Jewish-Christian sect to condemn the testament. And they did so in unsparing terms.
The image of Jesus that one gets from the Talmud is that of an illicit, sex-crazed black magician who uses trickery to lead Israel astray. In BT Sanhedrin 103a, Jesus is depicted as a poor disciple who “spoiled his food,” which Schafer speculates may be a euphemism for sexual misconduct: “to eat the dish” being a recognized Talmudic euphemism known for the sex act itself. A later emendation adds that he “practiced magic and led Israel astray.” And the virgin birth is ridiculed as a cover-up of Jesus? true parentage: His mother was an “illicit woman” (another Talmudic locution), perhaps even a prostitute.
Strong stuff – no wonder they don’t teach it in Sunday school. But fascinating, as well, as long as, of course, we don?t take it too seriously (which, doubtless, some Jews do). The texts Schafer adduces – all of them relatively late, dating to the third- or fourth-century C.E., suggesting a conscious effort to fight the upstart sect – show that the Talmudic rabbis did not reject Jesus for the noble reasons that Klinghoffer and his ilk suggest. At least according to these texts, they rejected him because they thought he was evil, or saw him as a threat.
The most notorious of all the “Jesus texts,” however, is BT Sanhedrin 43a, which describes the halachic procedure of Jesus? trial and execution. This is notorious, of course, because for nearly 2,000 years, Christian authorities have been blaming the Jews for killing Jesus, even though the New Testament itself makes clear that it’s the Romans who actually did the deed.
Shockingly, however, the Talmud does not shirk responsibility for Jesus? death. On the contrary, it says that he deserved it and that the Jews did it themselves. Jesus was, the text relates, a sorcerer, an idolater and a heretic who led Israel to idolatry. His conviction was entirely just, and his execution – stoning and then hanging – was carried out in strict accordance with rabbinic law.
Why would the Talmud make such a claim? Schafer speculates it is to undermine the Gospels’ account and empower the rabbis. In the Gospels’ account, the rabbis are tools, almost, of Rome. In the Talmud?s account, they are powerful – so powerful that they condemned the hero of the Christian sect to his brutal death. (Believe it or not, there are actually even more graphic texts, which Schafer includes in his book. Suffice to say, their gruesome account of hell puts even Dante to shame. But I’ll leave that out of this family newspaper.)
The rest of the article can be found at the link above.
Look, to be honest, I except that many horrible things have been done in the name of Christ, but that it no way tarnishes the name of the Lord, nor His Church. Those that would do horrible things in the name of Christ should not be counted as Christians, and yet, so often in the media and in the eyes of others, there is no attempt at separation.
Protests get Jews for Jesus radio ad pulled in North
Posted by Joel in Messianic Judaism, Religious News on October 7, 2008
via Protests get Jews for Jesus radio ad pulled in North | Israel | Jerusalem Post.
Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. (Romans 11:28 NKJV)
Don’t mistake that for me giving (or ignoring) legitimacy to ‘Jews for Jesus’, but we are reminded time and time again, that you simply cannot buy the Jewish people, neither with money or pseudo-Christian Zionism. Let us just preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Those that will come, let them come.
Personally, I believe that their will come a time (Zechariah 12) that the remnant of Judaism will come to the Church. Until then, we’ll just preach the gospel.
A wave of irate protest silenced a Jews for Jesus radio campaign last week on a local radio station in the North.
ISRAEL-BASED MEMBERS of Jews for Jesus spread their message in this January 2004 file photo.
Photo: Ariel Jerozolimski [file]It took just a few hours for Kol Rega, which broadcasts to the Galilee and northern valleys, to cave in to pressure from listeners who phoned in to demand that the Jews for Jesus campaign be taken off the air.
“Shortly after we broadcast it, we received dozens of angry phone calls from listeners telling us they were hurt by the crudeness of the ad,” said Haim Hecht, manager of Kol Rega. “The truth is that even before it hurt my listeners the ad hurt me. It was simply too aggressive and blatantly missionary.”
The slogan of the radio campaign is “Yeshu [a derogatory form of Jesus] equals Yeshua [accent on penultimate syllable] equals yeshua [accent on the last syllable].”
Yeshu as a reference to Jesus appears in the Talmud; it is an acronym for “May his name and memory be wiped out” (yemach shmo vezichro). Yeshua is Jesus in Hebrew. Yeshua, with an accent on the last syllable, means redemption.
In three different versions of the ad, ethnically identifiable Israeli Jewish voices – one Russian, one Moroccan and one haredi Ashkenazi – express surprise at being told that Jesus is equivalent to redemption.
At the end of the ad a voice-over says, “Confused? Call for more information,” and provides a phone number.
Dan Sered, head of Jews for Jesus in Israel, said in response, “All we are trying to do is share our faith. We just want to provide Israelis with an opportunity to know that Jesus died for our sins and rose on the third day. Most Israelis have never gotten the chance to hear about Jesus. If they do not want to hear that is fine. But if they are interested, why shouldn’t they be given the opportunity?”
Sered said a minority of Orthodox Jews in Israel was preventing the secular majority from exercising their right to freedom of religion, speech and faith.
“Jews who believe Jesus is the messiah are a minority in Israel, but so are the Orthodox,” he said. “Why should they be allowed to prevent secular Israelis from hearing Jesus’s message of love and peace?”
The radio ad is part of larger campaign, directly primarily at the North, that includes full-page ads in the weekend editions of Ma’ariv and Yisrael Hayom, two Hebrew dailies.
In addition, Jews for Jesus activists sporting T-shirts and passing out literature have been active in recent days in the North, including Nahariya, Kiryat Shmona and the Haifa area.
According to members of Jews for Jesus, the municipalities of Tiberias and Karmiel each took down a large-screen Jews-for-Jesus ad located at prominent intersections.
Yoel Ben-David, a Jews for Jesus activist, said Orthodox Jews from different streams have threatened him and his peers, pushed them and, in Kiryat Shmona, removed the air from a car tire.
Kiryat Shmona Chief Rabbi Tzfania Drori said he had heard rumors about the car tire. “That is probably one of the mildest reactions imaginable in response to aggressive missionary activity pursued by these Jews for Yeshu,” he said.
“I believe we have a right to prevent these people from entering our town and promulgating New Testaments and missionary literature; it is tantamount to a woman performing a striptease in the middle of a public place,” Drori, who also heads a yeshiva in Kiryat Shmona, said.
He said a group of his students had followed the Jews for Jesus group around the town, heckling them and preventing them distributing their literature.
Drori said he was concerned the Jews for Jesus activists, who he said came from Scandinavian countries, would have sway with immigrants from the former Soviet Union, who have weaker ties to their Jewish roots.
Rosh Hashanah, the world’s birthday -Times Online
Posted by Joel in Genesis, Messianic Judaism, Religious News on September 29, 2008
I put no religious stock in the Jewish holidays, except as a mark for the Church, as a type and shadow of either the things that are or the things to come (that we might correctly interpret prophecy); however, when they arrive, it is nice to take a moment to observe them, and thank God for the New Creation, the Church, and the law of Grace.
Rosh Hashanah, the world’s birthday -Times Online.
